What are your thoughts on the Combat Action Badge, and it becoming retroactive to 1941?

I personally think after reading most of these comments that maybe we are looking at this the wrong way. In reality, the CIB and the CAB are not 'awards', but rather acknowledgements of the experiences of the wearer. No one can choose to be put in for these badges, the enemy dictates who looks combat directly in the eye. I believe these badges help tell a story, and those that earn them honorably may look at them and know they answered the bell when it rang. Last time I checked we are all Army, it doesn't matter what your job is. The CIB was created for Infantry and cannot be replaced, only honored. It takes nothing away from the CIB when a CAB is awarded to acknowledge that a non-infantry MOS handled their combat responsibilities when they came knocking.

By that rationality, it’s called infantry, you get your combat patch and campaign medal with your blue chord and crossed rifles. You did your job. There should be no Combat Identifiers. Only service/campaign medals by the whole “It’s called THE ARMY in WARTIME” logic. SFC (Join to see)

Actually I know a large number of guys that have enlisted and are interested in having a CIB pinned to their chest for one reason or other. I can honestly state that in my case I joined and served not for honor and glory as there was no such thing as a CAB but the fact that it has been created and I have been awarded it due to my tours and sacrifices, I will wear it very proudly. I could care less what the circumstances are for others who choose to wear it or not wear it. I know that I wasn't searching for it but it was awarded to me and I know that I earned every bit of it. For me and the brothers and sisters who fought alongside me who have also earned it, that is ALL that matters.

The CIB was created out of the fiction that infantry are the only soldiers who directly fight the enemy. That wasn't true then, and has become less and less true with every military action.

Thanks CSM Michael J. Uhlig. That might work.

So I know and could vouch for several officers and senior NCO's who never left the wire or vehicles to do combat patrols that earned silver stars and bronze stars while those who kicked in the doors and cleared building 13 hours a day 7 days a week simply earned a commendation medal.

Do their silver stars and bronze stars get downgraded while those who placed their bodies at the opposite end of the ENT barrels get upgraded to silver and bronze stars?

This badge would identify all who served in combat areas! Not just those who were involved in a "declared" war! Since WWII, there have been many conflicts and skirmishes that should qualify. Grenada is a prime example! I would not qualify for the badge. Although I was on active duty, and sometimes in areas where I qualified for Imminent Danger Pay....I never saw combat, nor was I in direct "boots on the ground" support of a combat action. For those who were...whether they were in Admin, Motor Pool, or Infantry....They deserve the recognition that has not been given for more then 3 decades!

Under your requirements CSM, I would be all for it.

Hooah! Thanks MAJ (Join to see) !!! Where there is a will there is a way.

This is not an issue

I was in Korea (A WAR THAT HAS NEVER ENDED as recognized by the VFW. I arrived there in Oct 1964 and on my second day was pulled up to some mountain and given a weapon to guard an empty missile base. As a CW Radar tech., I had received no combat training since Basic almost a year earlier. I pulled first shift and when relieved, was replaced by two 17 year old Pvt's who were afraid to walk the post alone so they were intending to walk a four our shift together. I did not get 100 meters from these two kids when they almost ran up my back. One was carrying the other who had his leg broken and ripped open by someone with a 2x4 who had tried to get them both. We shot up the whole area (Mad Minute) and then swept the whole area inside of the wire. A SFC ordered me back onto that post and I told him do not come down to check me because I was scared as hell and would kill whatever moved. I spent the whole night out there and was not relieved until about 10 am the next day when a helicopter landed and out came a group of officers including a Brig. Gen. The Lt who was in charge had not called for an evac. because he did not know how to operate the radio system and the first aid kit was empty. The young man lost his leg later due to infection. The Lt was relieved and a Sp 4 who was acting Sgt of the guard was taken also. The SFC who was working the generators hid. I spent the next 30 days guarding various empty missile site's and learning how to operate the M14, 1911 and 50cal. I already was familiar with the pump shotgun which was the most efficient weapon we had for night fighting. I finally was put in a Hawk missile battery, for which I had been trained. We needed 16 guards per night and only had 19 E-4 and below plus a number of Katusa's to pull guard. We had no Infantry supports with in 10 clicks and had our share of thieves and people with weapons probing our site which had triple wire and mines. I do not care for a CAB, I just got my medals last year for being in during the Vietnam war and good conduct medal. I was on that hill when my next door neighbor was killed on Feb 9, 1965. He and I were both RA , many vets were US (drafted) but we all served and sacrificed something. My brother-in-law is a retired CSM with over 36 years service and 44 months of "recorded" war service. We get along just fine and know we did our best.

What cost? What proof? It's an MOS-thing and assignment thing, just as the CIB criteria is. The CAB is a fitting award to present to soldiers whose combat service before 2001 was in and MOS and assignment other than infantry -- the two criteria for the award of that combat badge. I was an F.O. in an infantry company for 9 months in Vietnam. I saw 17 infantry officers come and go during my tenure. I was happy to be there all the time and loved my work and contribution. I certainly would have wished to receive the CIB during my time; I even lead platoons from time to time when infantry officers were not available. Even got two valour awards. But, I was an artillery officer in an artillery job and not eligible, as were my recon NCO and RTO were likewise ineligible. Years later, I was vetching with my fellow artillery officers about F.O. and F.O. party lack of eligibility for the CIB and an infantry officer overheard us. He said if you wanted the CIB, you should have changed your MOS. He was absolutely right. I don't begrudge any recipient of the CIB. Heaven knows they earned it. So give the same consideration to the non-infantry soldier who fought next to infantrymen in the same battles but with a different MOS, assignment, and different roles. As to the cost, if there is any, about cutting orders, somebody ought to be able to figure that out. As to the cost of the award, let the recipient figure that out. There are plenty of places where they can be obtained by each one of us.

LTC Stout, I disagree that the CAB is "an MOS thing and an assignment thing". The complete requirement for the CAB is "The Combat Action Badge may be awarded to any soldier not eligible for the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) or Combat Medical Badge (CMB) after the date of September 18, 2001 performing duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized, who is personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement". How exactly does a person prove decades after the fact that they were personally present and actively engageng or being engaged by the enemy short of a Purple Heart?

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM - Well it was meant for all branches. I have one.

Well, we outta work good together. I make 'em you check 'em.

Just as an Infantryman earns it by performing ground combat operations while under enemy hostile fire( myself), so should a non- infantryman be awarded a badge that they EARNED if put in the same situation. They still got on a plane and left the the greatest country on earth to defend it.

SGT (Join to see) I can offer two examples.

1. May first PSG, G Troop 2/6 Cav, Vietnam Vet. Two tours in the Vietnam as a Cavalry Scout with 113s and he even new the 114 (that would be fun to have around the house). He story was this, as he was explaining the concept of awards, and how they handled. He first served in 11th ACR, and had a several vehicles shot out from under them (his words). He got a Purple Heart on that tour. That was all. He his next tour was as a Scout with 1st ID. He said the entire time he was there, he never saw the enemy, and when left (out-processed) he received a BSM and a CIB, which he said appeared to be the 1ID parting gift.

2. Fast forward to Desert Storm. The lead elements were ACRs and 24th ID, and largley Tanks, with Bradley's etc in trail for safety... It was a Tank Battle after all. The Tankers and Scouts who killed most of the enemy (direct fire kills), got nothing. I had friends in the Infantry, and by the time they arrived the lead elements had defeated most resistance. Several Divisions awarded the CIB by battle roster, not based on individual action. I heard of Commanders who said, they were giving out as many combat awards as they could, as this may be the only opportunity. The 3rd AD was the worst - everyone gets a trophy.

3. Commanders and CSMs are the ones who need to keep fidelity in the system, but not all do. My last Brigade Commander and CSM in Iraq (I was the DBC) were crazy strict with the CAB.... We even had Infantryman in our Brigade, but since they were doing an MP mission, the only combat award (badge) they could get was the CAB... which they hated... and while it made sense, it also didn't make sense on some levels.

COL Charles Williams, Sir, My final response is, as long as the CAB is as sacred to those who deserve it, as the CIB is to grunts, I have no problem. My CE, fought right along side of us when we were shot down the first time. All he got was nothing. Had the CAB been around back then, I would have supported him receiving one. He stayed right in thick of it, protecting our flanks while I was on the other side of the pilots. We were able to hold off the incoming until help arrived. He was a newbie like I was. He trained me how to help him do a PE on our ship, and I trained him on loading, reloading our 60's. Anyway, he deserved something. On another occasion, we flew into an ambush trying to get wounded out. He was awarded the BS w V device.

The issue with the CAB and CIB too, is the fidelity of the system, and the Commanders approving them. I have seem issues with both; the CAB is just the new shinny thing in recent years. As a support Soldier, I know MPs, Engineers, and many others engage direct combat daily, and sustain heavy casualties along side of our tip of the spear brothers. But, like wise I have seen it awarded for silliness. Still, I think it matters, was needed, but I also thing making it retroactive will be very hard at best. SFC (Join to see)

Posers... LTC Stephen C.. I agree that would be hard.

LTC Stephen C. , and COL Charles Williams when this question was read, that's the first thing I thought about. Posers are wearing the CAB, and CIB already. For them they go with being in artillery, engineers,company clerks (Jerks), and whatever else they want to be. I've seen them on Marine uniforms worn by posers. Duh!

MSgt (Join to see), We are all in this together as a huge brotherhood. Not many can say that. Thanks for your service, Curtis.

If you're getting shot at, you're in combat.