Posted on Jun 18, 2016
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Can we have a non-polarizing discussion about violence and terrorism that does not include banning weapons and will actually address some of the causes of the current violent trend? I will include a proposal in the comments.
TSgt Hunter Logan SFC Mark Merino SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" @spc andrew griffin @ltc jerry hallman @msg michael davis SGT (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas
TSgt Hunter Logan SFC Mark Merino SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" @spc andrew griffin @ltc jerry hallman @msg michael davis SGT (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 20
We need to learn to honestly view the other's viewpoint. Everything to day becomes an us versus them conflict. Us is all right and them is all wrong. Us is good them is bad. Us is smart them is stupid. etc etc.
I suggest that at least once a week you take the time to study the other side and make an honest effort to argue their side.
You may be surprised at what you can learn.
I suggest that at least once a week you take the time to study the other side and make an honest effort to argue their side.
You may be surprised at what you can learn.
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PO1 John Miller
SSG Trevor S.
You sound like a Libertarian to me. Take the plunge and come on over! :)
You sound like a Libertarian to me. Take the plunge and come on over! :)
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SSG Trevor S.
PO1 John Miller - You are correct about the Libertarian leanings. I would vote for a Libertarian running for Senate, Congress, or State level. Johnson seems to have low support and to be making a mockery of his own name right now though. It would be kinda funny to attend a rally with a 90's era "Big Johnson" shirt though.
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My starting proposal:
1. Engage the churches and other places of worship to help bring the message back to morality and human values instead of preaching about tithing so the preacher can get more in offerings.
2. Realize many will not be reached by churches because they are of different belief systems, and engage all people in high school / college/ public service announcements, about moral choices and the value of human life.
3. Enable a notification, due process, and appeal process for those placed on terror watch lists and integrate the list into the background check system. This will ensure rights are protected and enhance the functionality of our current background check system.
4. Honestly and blindly enforce current gun laws.
5. Begin a program of advanced firearms training for willing concealed carry holders that will allow them to carry in gun free zones. This training will include:
A. Target selection under stress
B. Target Prioritization under stress
C. Fighting to cover a retreat
D. Annual renewal to keep up to date with the most current info.
1. Engage the churches and other places of worship to help bring the message back to morality and human values instead of preaching about tithing so the preacher can get more in offerings.
2. Realize many will not be reached by churches because they are of different belief systems, and engage all people in high school / college/ public service announcements, about moral choices and the value of human life.
3. Enable a notification, due process, and appeal process for those placed on terror watch lists and integrate the list into the background check system. This will ensure rights are protected and enhance the functionality of our current background check system.
4. Honestly and blindly enforce current gun laws.
5. Begin a program of advanced firearms training for willing concealed carry holders that will allow them to carry in gun free zones. This training will include:
A. Target selection under stress
B. Target Prioritization under stress
C. Fighting to cover a retreat
D. Annual renewal to keep up to date with the most current info.
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Capt Michael Greene
Col Rebecca Lorraine - Loved astronomy, enjoyed anthropology: almost majored in it but I got married instead. Evolution? My favorite. I recommend Yuval Noah Harari’s book “Sapiens.”
I’d love to read about your god. Most people refer to the god of the Good Book, Yahweh.
The Roman Empire is important history. Fortunately, it’s well documented. When they ruled “the world” from England to Spain, from Turkey to Egypt, they allowed all those peoples to continue worshipping their own gods. Many religions came to Rome. The Iranian god, Mithra, was popular among Roman soldiers. An important event occurred at the Battle of Milvian Bridge: Constantine thought he saw a sign like a cross in the sky, so he asked the Christian god to help him in battle. He won! So he ordered that Christians would no longer be persecuted. He invited 1800 Christian leaders from all over the empire to meet at the Council of Nicaea, and had them agree on a central doctrine, determine which books should go into a Bible, decide on the divinity of Jesus, and determine if god was triune or unitary. Constantine was good for Christianity. Then Theodosius was even better. He made Christianity the only official religion throughout the empire. Cities and villages fell in line. Mars, Jupiter, Mithra and all the others were pretty well destroyed. For the past 16 centuries, the whole western half of the globe has known only the god of the Palestinian Jews who followed Jesus.
Had the Battle at Milvian Bridge gone the other way, Americans would be worshipping Mithra now, and nobody would have ever heard of Jesus.
So that’s Yahweh’s story. What’s your concept of God? Message me if you like.
I’d love to read about your god. Most people refer to the god of the Good Book, Yahweh.
The Roman Empire is important history. Fortunately, it’s well documented. When they ruled “the world” from England to Spain, from Turkey to Egypt, they allowed all those peoples to continue worshipping their own gods. Many religions came to Rome. The Iranian god, Mithra, was popular among Roman soldiers. An important event occurred at the Battle of Milvian Bridge: Constantine thought he saw a sign like a cross in the sky, so he asked the Christian god to help him in battle. He won! So he ordered that Christians would no longer be persecuted. He invited 1800 Christian leaders from all over the empire to meet at the Council of Nicaea, and had them agree on a central doctrine, determine which books should go into a Bible, decide on the divinity of Jesus, and determine if god was triune or unitary. Constantine was good for Christianity. Then Theodosius was even better. He made Christianity the only official religion throughout the empire. Cities and villages fell in line. Mars, Jupiter, Mithra and all the others were pretty well destroyed. For the past 16 centuries, the whole western half of the globe has known only the god of the Palestinian Jews who followed Jesus.
Had the Battle at Milvian Bridge gone the other way, Americans would be worshipping Mithra now, and nobody would have ever heard of Jesus.
So that’s Yahweh’s story. What’s your concept of God? Message me if you like.
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Capt Michael Greene
MSgt Mike Mikulski - Four people were carrying in Orlando. They engaged the shooter when he started. They exchanged fire and retreated, probably because they were outgunned.
The Christianity thing started because the OP brought God and Morality into it.
The Christianity thing started because the OP brought God and Morality into it.
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SSG Trevor S.
Capt Michael Greene - Would you stop with the God vs Godless thing? I am not adverse to understanding there are people who don't believe the way I do. That is the reason for my #2 point. This gives a secular avenue to approach the issue as well as a non-secular path. Focus on the issue, not your prejudices on religion. Thank you.
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Col Rebecca Lorraine
Capt Michael Greene - Very cool synopsis and I was looking at sapiens as a read possibility. I am a science major, so microbiology, chemistry, anatomy, physiology, anthropology, sociology and astronomy form my understanding of the God of many. God may be many and comes in many forms. Mans need to connect with the understanding of our creation is what drives our spirituality. It is hard to understand that 4.8 billion years ago our sun created our galaxy and we just happened to be the right distance to form this little planet of primates and all the other life forms that exist. That little spark that began this came from something far bigger than we can imagine, but we try. From Hinduism, Buddhism, daoism, Christianity, Bahia, Islam, are just the biggest we know now. But the Pharohs were Gods, mythology as you mentioned oden and so many different forms of spirituality. I don't believe I have been truly given the wisdom to judge one as right or wrong. Each one have a lesson to teach and I truly believe God, in their infinite wisdom provides a structure of faith appropriate for the needs of the culture. About every 500 years a very powerful spirit comes and guides groups of those who need a different path. Native Americans believe in animal spirits, planets, stars, and they had their own metaphorical approach to the earth, life and nature. When I look at any creation on earth or consider the immense universe in which we are smaller than a grain of sand. Everything is from something. It's hard to understand, but that is my God. They have lessons for us if we are open and wise enough to believe. I just see it all as an amazing miracle. One of my favorite books is called The Years of Rice and Salt, by Kim Stanley Robinson. It is a novel, alternative history that makes on consider the possibilities! Wow, long comment!
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Probably not, because we tend to disagree about even the facts.
Fact disagreements:
1: Crime is not rising, it is plateaued after falling.
2: Mass-shooting events are varying around a norm that appears to not be rising or if it is, rising nearly imperceptibly.
3: If controlled for major urban centers violent crimes especially shootings are drastically low.
4: More people are killed each year by fists and blunt objects than by rifles of any kind.
5. Criminals can get their hands on any kind of weapons, and will if they choose to regardless of laws.
6: The purpose of an armed citizenry is defense against tyranny and that benefit is worth the costs we are currently observing.
7: Armed citizenry Is generally as or more trustworthy than police and military members in bearing their arms.
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS Did I miss one of the facts in dispute?
Fact disagreements:
1: Crime is not rising, it is plateaued after falling.
2: Mass-shooting events are varying around a norm that appears to not be rising or if it is, rising nearly imperceptibly.
3: If controlled for major urban centers violent crimes especially shootings are drastically low.
4: More people are killed each year by fists and blunt objects than by rifles of any kind.
5. Criminals can get their hands on any kind of weapons, and will if they choose to regardless of laws.
6: The purpose of an armed citizenry is defense against tyranny and that benefit is worth the costs we are currently observing.
7: Armed citizenry Is generally as or more trustworthy than police and military members in bearing their arms.
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS Did I miss one of the facts in dispute?
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
8: Demographic based information shows that Firearms related homicide is Socio-Economic (and self correcting as our economy goes up within urban areas). Exacterbating issues appear to be Population Density (also a Socio-economic factor) and Education (Socio-economic factor). See #3
9: Accounting for "Mental Health" (As in those who were taking or withdrawing from prescription medication which altered brain chemistry) significantly changes #2, and Suicides (which should NEVER be included in crime statistics or Firearm related deaths, as they are accounted for elsewhere).
9: Accounting for "Mental Health" (As in those who were taking or withdrawing from prescription medication which altered brain chemistry) significantly changes #2, and Suicides (which should NEVER be included in crime statistics or Firearm related deaths, as they are accounted for elsewhere).
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SFC Charles Temm
someone did some work here!
The government's own stats defeat their claims of epidemic violence and need for more laws. I've been pointing folks to the CDC site for this breakdown for years and honest progs admit to being rudely surprised by what they find.
Another set of factors on violence and it's frequency is the percentage of younger males and a nation's homogeneity or lack of. The less violent societies tend (it's not an absolute) to be those made of a single ethnic group ie Japan and until recently much of Europe. Those same nations also tend to have on average much smaller percentages of young males-the prime law breaking group.
Sociology is at best an imperfect "science" but this is one area that has received a lot of study the last few decades so...
The government's own stats defeat their claims of epidemic violence and need for more laws. I've been pointing folks to the CDC site for this breakdown for years and honest progs admit to being rudely surprised by what they find.
Another set of factors on violence and it's frequency is the percentage of younger males and a nation's homogeneity or lack of. The less violent societies tend (it's not an absolute) to be those made of a single ethnic group ie Japan and until recently much of Europe. Those same nations also tend to have on average much smaller percentages of young males-the prime law breaking group.
Sociology is at best an imperfect "science" but this is one area that has received a lot of study the last few decades so...
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SFC Charles Temm - If you want to end Violence (et al), "Warehouse" 16-25 year old males and the problem just goes away. We don't have a problem outside that Demographic. We don't really have a problem inside that Demo until you get to low education and low economy sectors either. In essence, "Young men are stupid, and do stupid things" not and excuse but definitely an area to focus in on.
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