Posted on Oct 5, 2016
What is the best way to tell your unit that you in no way shape or form want an ETS award from them?
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First off, wow kinda surprised this generated any response at all. I was looking more for a "oh hey, just do this memorandum and it's all done." kind of a deal. Anyways as for context, awards here go through about 15 or more corrections for non-grammatical issues. The award hasn't been written yet and I would probably end up writing it anyways. I just don't want to waste anyone's time or my own for that matter with writing an award that a civilian company cares not a whit about that just going to get kicked back over and over and over. I know what I have done and I honestly don't care much for recognition. I'd rather see some of my Soldiers get credited as they go on to do bigger and better things. Do I also have other motivations for not wanting an award yes because there have been several things that have left a bad taste, but I didn't post this to air my dirty laundry, I was just simply looking for advice. Thanks all for the numerous replies. Most were pretty entertaining, and a few were even helpful.
Awards
ETS/EAS
Advice
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 350
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I don't know how best to say it, but you could always ask them to lose your paperwork. If they're like my old unit, you won't even need to ask!
LOL
LOL
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I hear throat punches are an effective way to ensure you don't get an award.
I suggest starting with your CSM, they always did appreciate a good throat punch.
I suggest starting with your CSM, they always did appreciate a good throat punch.
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Christopher Kinsella
PFC Jim Wheeler - Maybe I'm misinterpreting something you said but it sounds like you said you were injured, failed a PT test and then failed a second test within a couple weeks? And then you took a chapter 13? You should have been given 90 days to retest.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
Christopher Kinsella - My understanding of the reg is that you get a maximum of 90 days. You're supposed to take it at any time during those 90 days that you believe you can pass.
I was not afforded the option to choose when I was ready to take it and the CO decided when I was to take it.
If I had a better understanding of the regulations then, there was a lot that I could have done to fight it. Unfortunately, I was a 20 year old kid who was still new to the Army and didn't understand what my options were.
I was not afforded the option to choose when I was ready to take it and the CO decided when I was to take it.
If I had a better understanding of the regulations then, there was a lot that I could have done to fight it. Unfortunately, I was a 20 year old kid who was still new to the Army and didn't understand what my options were.
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PFC Jim Wheeler
However, it was more than 2 weeks. I think it was 6? I was originally put on remedial PT for a while, but all that did was make things worse.
When the CO said I had to take the next PT test my Section SGT asked me if I could pass and I told him I didn't think so. He asked what I needed, I told him 2 weeks of rest for inflammation to go down. He sent me to sick call and said he was going to talk to the CO about postponing the test.
CO said no. He said I had to take it on Monday or it would be the same as failing and he would start the chapter proceedings.
When the CO said I had to take the next PT test my Section SGT asked me if I could pass and I told him I didn't think so. He asked what I needed, I told him 2 weeks of rest for inflammation to go down. He sent me to sick call and said he was going to talk to the CO about postponing the test.
CO said no. He said I had to take it on Monday or it would be the same as failing and he would start the chapter proceedings.
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Christopher Kinsella
PFC Jim Wheeler - right, you weren't supposed to be the expert...that's what the Trial Defense Attorney is for. Every legal office I've worked in has applied that regulation to mean Soldier gets 90 days, IF the Soldier wants to go sooner they get a counseling from the command acknowledging that they are voluntarily taking it early and understand the risk of doing so. You were done wrong.
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Feels like there must be a story behind this. Can you share more context?
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MSG (Join to see)
CPT Aaron Kletzing , I'm going to get the popcorn ready if and when the story comes out.
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SGT (Join to see)
Made an edit above to clarify. Plenty of stories, but I will leave those for when SGT Camron is a Mr. Camron.
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Understanding your not a special snowflake is a leading edge on getting out. No one cares about your awards when they hire you. They only care if you could make their job easier. And don't list every god damned aar on your resume either. Obviously if you have any valor awards put that down but we laugh at bronze stars because we saw how standard they where for an e-7 as a post deployment award.
You want to truly not care? Take the award, accept it and put it in a trunk with your fatigues.
Don't let your lower enlisted see you bitter. They will think your "one of those guys who couldn't cut it in the army". If you want to show them that there is life on the outside and be subjective to re-up. Just get out and make a better life.
You want to truly not care? Take the award, accept it and put it in a trunk with your fatigues.
Don't let your lower enlisted see you bitter. They will think your "one of those guys who couldn't cut it in the army". If you want to show them that there is life on the outside and be subjective to re-up. Just get out and make a better life.
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SFC (Join to see)
Why is this a topic? Your ETSing, that says enough right there. I guess in today's climate, everything is a protest.
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SGT Scott Stancik
The E-7 that ran the DFAC on my FOB in Iraq got a Bronze Star for adding more menu items......and also 1 squad leader per Infantry platoon was picked and they received a Bronze Star. Anyway, by the time my ETS date came up I was so tired of being at Drum I didn't give a fuck about anything besides a DD214 when it was time. I was an E5, my company gave me an AAM as my ETS award, zero fucks given, that AAM is buried in a plastic box somewhere in my "shit pile" along with the other stuff no one will give a shit about when I die in 50+ years lol
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SGT Jason Herbert
SGT Scott Stancik - I remember picking up a stars and stopes and reading how a marine lower enlisted rushed enemy fire several times to pull his injured squad mates back for aid. And he received a bronze star... it really made me distane the army's award mentality.
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Take the ETS award and put your ego away. Now, if at retirement and your award gets massively downgraded by your CoC than tell them to shove that up their collective asses.
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1SG Mark Reed
Agree, years ago I was recommended for a LOM And my Bn Cdr down graded it to an MSM; he said I disn't meet my potential even though I was retiring as a a 1SG. At the time only 3% of NCOS achieved E8 or E9. When I confronted him about the downgrade he couldn't justify his actions to me, just a cowardly LTC unfit to lead. Good news is, the award would only affect what is placed on my head stone.
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1SG Mark Noyes
Agree,I too was leaving my Batallion to take an assignment as a Senior Instructor in a USARF School. At the last formation of the day our Bn Commander presented me with an ARCOM. Prior to reading the citation he apologized and said this is not the proper award. I had put you in for an MSM. Your buddy the Bde Commander said no.
When I retired seven of us received the Kiss Of Death ( MSM). When I saw who was receiving the award mine meant nothing...
When I retired seven of us received the Kiss Of Death ( MSM). When I saw who was receiving the award mine meant nothing...
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SFC Clark Adams
My son retired from the Army as an LTC and awarded another MSM, because the CG felt only COL and above were entitled to receive an LOM at retirement! This despite holding multiple MSM and Defense Meritorious Service Medals for his service in multiple Joint and DoD HQ DA level assignments for the preceding 12 years. He said screw it! This is just another reason I should retire.
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By all means share the back story which resulted in this decision. Without context it could just be a BA or sour grapes.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
THIS. Too much BS in the background always gets ignored prior to an instance like this. This is more often than not, the case.
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If you're ETSing, you're never going to wear it.....so what's the point in being obstinate about receiving one? If you really feel that strongly about it, pitch it in the trash as soon as you walk out the door.
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Tell your chain of command in person. Put it in writing, MFR, if necessary.
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SGT (Join to see)
Thanks, that was generally what I figured is what I would have to do, figured that I would ask just in case someone knew instead of making an assumption.
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I think in the long term, when you are older and look back on this, you will regret not taking an award. You should take an award and try your best to reflect on the positives from this experience.
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CPL Wilfred Roberge
MSG (Join to see) - I was put in for an award for my IMA tour at a Reserve Command and they wanted it to be ready before the end of my active duty so I was writing up my own award, lol, the DA638 was submitted by my supervisor though, the G-1 awards section which I was attched to SO I ended up preparing my own award after recieving the DA638 and sending it to the awards board, lol.
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MSG (Join to see)
Rambo when you serve 31 years then talk to me, I shouldn't need to write my retirement award period that is a command function, until you young bloods understand this then it will be a problem
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MSG (Join to see)
SPC (Anonymous) - from the post his unit left a bad taste, I myself retired from a unit that was toxic from day one and anything received from them would only make my retirement the more bitter, I chose the right path, what this sm is seeking is can he do it, answer is yes, does he need a reason no, and is there any reg out there that states you have to have an award for ets or retirement award I doubt it, his reasons as well as mine are own business
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
MSG (Join to see) - AMEN!! I never had that problem while in the Service, I was blessed with Outstanding Skippers and Senior Non Coms. but when I was discharged I went to work for the State. I retired from the State with 34 years my last Agency I was there for 12 years and my Supervisor did not have the time or inclination to even write up a blurb about my service so the Agency Director could read it when she gave me my retirement plaque and letter. Even though I was only one of two people in the state that could do my job, all I got was "He worked for the agency 12 years" No mention of the rest of the time or nothing. Pitiful! The Military is not the only places that have Toxic environments or piss poor leadership and management styles.
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I don't believe in ETS or PCS awards, unless the soldier did something above and beyond. Otherwise, they are just like participation trophies...
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CW2 (Join to see)
What does that's mean though? Do you not accept them or rest I submit your Soldiers for them?
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SFC (Join to see)
CW2 (Join to see) - I do not believe in giving an award to someone for showing up and doing their job - that's what pay, promotions and benefits are for.
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If they're making you write your own anyway just write yourself up a silver star. When it gets kicked back tell the CO/1SG that you have no idea why it wasn't approved, they'll just have to fix it.
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Was never a problem in USMC that I was aware of, because awards were hard to come by. Other than being recognized for Valor or a specific achievement, awards were for End of Tour or End of Service. If the member was also retiring and requested a ceremony or formation then the appropriate End of Service award would be presented, and often roses for the wife. There were unwritten accepted norms regarding level of award based on rank, but usually not so much so for Valor. Most enlisted MOH citations over the years ended with "he gallantly gave his life for his country". I don't ever recall anyone being told to write up their own award or refusing any award.
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I think the best ETS award you can give to anybody is a DD214. My ETS award was a reduction to PFC and 45/45 3 or 4 months before I supposed to ETS. >:( Still got out with an honorable and a good re-enlistment. Did IRR until my mandatory time was up. :D
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Never had this problem, There was no such thing as an ETS award. On the night before my ETS, I, as Range Safety NCO, put two battalions of Infantry through a familiarization course with the sniper scope. I closed out the range, caught a few hours sleep, had breakfast, turned in my bedding, said goodbye to my platoon and friends and went to the orderly room and signed my DD214.
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I'd tell them, "Hey guys, I appreciate the thought and gesture, but I don't want any personal recognition. Thank you for your support!"
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SGT Gary Springer
the last unit I told my chain of command that I didn't want another award. Of course, it was my retirement award and I really didn't want another army commendation.
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I've seen top notch soldiers who weren't in the click get bullshit ETS and Pcs Awards. And I've seen race based awards given to slackers way above their performance based on race of CMD race. The Army is a microcosm of society. It doesn't run by the book or in a vacuum. It sucks often, but it's the best in the world.
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PO2 Chris Hearne
I concur. When I served on my 2nd ship, I saw how it felt to be a minority in an otherwise blue Navy. My whole CoC, including ship XO, CMC, department and division LCPO, CPO, LPO, and assorted E6 and E5 were Filipino, and even with working extended hours, outperforming every other E4 (advancement exam in top 2%, actual equipment repaired or replaced, etc) I couldnt get better than a basic "promote" eval. I asked my Filipino CPO, a recently advanced (and by my experience, one who should have hit the HYT stick) what I could do to advance. He told me to study harder. Seriously?
I sent it up to EEO, whom every member on the ship was Filipino as well. Wanna guess how that turned out? Well, after I transferred 10 months later, I made E5 instantly.
I sent it up to EEO, whom every member on the ship was Filipino as well. Wanna guess how that turned out? Well, after I transferred 10 months later, I made E5 instantly.
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Yip awards systems pretty much are a crock, unless you are getting one lol, plenty of people have written or been told to write their own awards, NCOERS, and many other things over a career. I actually despise this activity to its core. All that is is a bunch of lazy NCO's and Officers that do not care about soldiers. I blame both because when it comes to awards this is the only time that shit rolls up hill lmao. Officers are the worst, and they are extremely lazy when recommendations come up for awards they do not want to spend the time and energy on to see that it gets to the right approval authority. So they blanket some bullshit off a ARCOM and send it back as a downgrade fully knowing what they are doing.
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When I retired from the USAF my commander asked me to write my own MSM. I told him I would provide bullets but the award would do little for me after retirement. I did, he did and I received the award in front of my family. It was a big deal to them. I felt like I earned it but should have received it earlier when it could have helped toward promotion.
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Having seen this issue from both sides, my personal opinion is this: I did and do my job to the best of my ability because that is how I was raised, and what I believe. I think the ubiquity of end-of-tour awards has rendered them almost meaningless. Many of my Marines and troops performed truly outstanding work, and I always wrote them up for the highest awards I thought appropriate, knowing that the chain of command was going to downgrade them- but I wanted to recognize them. I always pulled them aside and explained that I wasn't "giving" them an award, but that I, personally, thought that they deserved it. As for myself, I have actual heroes in my family, and I feel that by accepting an award of this nature that I am doing a disservice to their memory. Napoleon said that men would die for bits of ribbon and metal when no rationale reason could persuade them to…and I think I'm smart enough to know the difference.
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Sgt Gustavo Soto
Semper Fi! I had great leaders in the Corps, but never got any awards for doing my job well. And my ratings were always above average, so it did not matter to me that I did not get any. I did not join the Corps to get awards! But I was well liked and respected by my CoC.
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