Posted on Dec 23, 2015
When is a Navy Captain referred to as 'Commodore'? When is a Lieutenant called 'Captain'?
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First things first, credit for this idea goes to COL Ted Mc, who posed these questions to me in another thread, as an indication of the confusion Naval ranks can cause other services. I thought it would be fun and informative to submit them to the larger RP audience. Sister service members, if you have similar vagaries in your rank structures, please feel free to post them as well. So, to wit:
1. When is a full-bird Captain referred to as 'Commodore'?
2. When is an (O-3) Captain referred to as 'Major'?
3. When is a Lieutenant referred to as 'Captain'? (Or, alternatively, a Senior Chief, or Master Chief?)
And bonus question, just for the heck of it, what the hell is a 'Boats', anyway?
Go!
1. When is a full-bird Captain referred to as 'Commodore'?
2. When is an (O-3) Captain referred to as 'Major'?
3. When is a Lieutenant referred to as 'Captain'? (Or, alternatively, a Senior Chief, or Master Chief?)
And bonus question, just for the heck of it, what the hell is a 'Boats', anyway?
Go!
Rank
Sailors
Tradition
Customs and Courtesies
Naval/Maritime History
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 45
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We had an Army Transportation Captain as our Motor T officer in Operation Deep Freeze. He'd always say "Army Type" on the phone to avoid confusion until..... The Coke machine was busted for a week and he rung up the Exchange Officer. Got a new one within an hour.
On the flip side, I was a LT (O-3) at MCAS El Toro. Power went out in housing and it would take as much time to fix 100 ENL units as it would 10 OFF units. A Marine Major was looking at work being done on the wrong side and demanded I do something about it. I refused. He wanted to know my boss' name. Captain Schumate. He rung him up and while chewing him out, fell to silence once he recognized the person on the other end of the phone was humming Anchors Aweigh. He did look good Monday morning apologizing in his dress uniform.
On the flip side, I was a LT (O-3) at MCAS El Toro. Power went out in housing and it would take as much time to fix 100 ENL units as it would 10 OFF units. A Marine Major was looking at work being done on the wrong side and demanded I do something about it. I refused. He wanted to know my boss' name. Captain Schumate. He rung him up and while chewing him out, fell to silence once he recognized the person on the other end of the phone was humming Anchors Aweigh. He did look good Monday morning apologizing in his dress uniform.
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CAPT Kevin B.
CAPT Schumate was real old school. 3-5 martini at lunch guy who didn't have much use for Marine Majors who felt "hard ass" came with their rank. The Major came down to my office to apologize to me after. I'm sure it wasn't his idea. The other Major I shared an office with had a pretty low hanging jaw trying to understand why a Marine O4 was kowtowing to a Navy O3.
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CDR (Join to see)
I was an LDO Navy LT in Guam as Explosives Safety Officer. We had an issue that I needed to inform PACFLT about and I called their N42. Someone picks up and says, "N42, Captain Mentikov". I start yes sir, yes sir two bags full sir, inform him of the issue and discuss some options. A month or so later I fly to Pearl Harbor for the PACFLT ordnance and explosives safety conference. I ask a few buddies which one was Captain Mentikov and he points to a Marine Captain !!!!!!! I go and introduce myself and after chapping his ass a bit, we had a good laugh. I have known Mark now for over 15 years since then and we still have a good laugh. He said he got things done answering the phone as Captain Mentikov and he has also gotten some pretty good digs in the BOQ when he told them he is "Captain Mentikov". He was a fellow Mustang or perhaps we would have had one of the famous Navy Marine throw downs :-)
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PO2 Ron Burling
And this is no shit, while assigned to the 31st Naval Construction Regiment as a weapons instructor, we all shared, for an office, an old Quonset Hut at Port Hueneme,CA. Even our NCOIC, a Marine Gunnery Sergeant worked out of there. That E-7 controlled all Seabee ranges on the West Coast, all one of them. One day the phone rang and for some reason the Gunny answered. He said; "This is the Gunny, speak but don't fuck up!". After that, his side of the conversation went like; "You're right, Captain, that is no way to answer a telephone. Yes sir. Yes, Sir. No, Sir, it won't happen again, Sir. Now, when was it you wanted to borrow MY range? No, Sir, sorry, we are booked solid."
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1. When he controls more than one ship.
2. To avoid having two 'captains' on board.
3. When they command a vessel.
4. A Boatswain.
Walt
2. To avoid having two 'captains' on board.
3. When they command a vessel.
4. A Boatswain.
Walt
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1SG David Niles
I served under Commodore O'Connell when I was deployed and I was told it was because he commanded ground forces
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PO1 (Join to see)
Cpl Phil Hsueh - I just got off the USS Ronald Reagan this month and it felt like we had Captains on patrol on the O3 level. As I sit here I can think of around NINE, yes NINE Captains you would see around the ship.
BIG CO
BIG XO
CAG
DCAG
Commodore
The rest are all boat people (airwing typically does not know anything about that type of thing). Several more that you would see walking through the P-ways (excuse me a second "Attention on deck", Carry on Carry on)
BIG CO
BIG XO
CAG
DCAG
Commodore
The rest are all boat people (airwing typically does not know anything about that type of thing). Several more that you would see walking through the P-ways (excuse me a second "Attention on deck", Carry on Carry on)
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CMDCM Gene Treants
Back in the late 60'sand early 70's on Gators it was common practice to referrer to Marine O-3's Major instead of Captain because of the Tradition of having only ONE Captain on the Ship. However, like so many Naval Traditions this had gone by the wayside. Capt Walter Miller all of your answers were right on! Well done Marine!
On the other hand it was really great to have Marine Captains on watch with us when I was at NAPLES and standing Watch. If we had to interact with another Navy facility when the Captain got on the hook and talked to them, we usually got fast action.
On the other hand it was really great to have Marine Captains on watch with us when I was at NAPLES and standing Watch. If we had to interact with another Navy facility when the Captain got on the hook and talked to them, we usually got fast action.
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This is funny and brings back memories. As an Air Force Captain I work in a joint environment with a Coast Guard search and rescue unit. Not intentionally, I would call over to the Coast Guard Ops Center to launch a search and said "this is Captain Shuttleworth with an immediate launch message" I got things done until I realized what was happening. Never dawned on me until one day one of the Coast Guard Senior Chiefs on watch with us pointed it out to me. After that I always prefaced my phone calls with this is Air Force Captain Shuttleworth to avoid the confusion. Still didn't slow those quiet professionals down. Love all the services dearly but from that experience, I Love me some Coast Guard!!!!
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PO1 John Miller
CPO Bryan B.
That's because a Navy Chief is on par with Army and Air Force "Chiefs!" :)
That's because a Navy Chief is on par with Army and Air Force "Chiefs!" :)
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All I remember is that you still love to stay on Air Force bases when I would go TAD. All you had to do was say you were chief and for some reason the wing wipers ran around like mad to make you happy
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Suspended Profile
A Captain is called Commodore when he is CO of a squadron of destroyers...
PO2 Sam Messer
CPO (Join to see) - Thank You for the explanations !
I guess I was never in a situation where I heard of Commodore's @ Port Hueneme or in Vietnam CBMU301 OR ACB2. I did a Med Cruse attached troop on the flag ship USS La Salle . That was my first time to know a Captian to be called Commodore ! My time as a Seabee 1966 to 1969 I saw the officer strips & knew an Ensign thru Admiral, never heard any one of them being called Commodore. Sadly during my service time I only had interaction with maybe 5 or 6 officers. Before joining CBMU301 no officers except leaving boot and checking in @ Port Hueneme. Captain Holmes ( full commander ) Lt Kramer a Mustang, Ensign Kux the OIC of detachment Bravo Khe Sanh, LtJG Anderson temp OIC Khe Sanh, Marine Col Lownds CO Khe Sanh. After these MEN I only had interaction with PO 1 st Class's & Chief's till I separated @ Little Creek, Va.
Again THANK YOU Chief !
I guess I was never in a situation where I heard of Commodore's @ Port Hueneme or in Vietnam CBMU301 OR ACB2. I did a Med Cruse attached troop on the flag ship USS La Salle . That was my first time to know a Captian to be called Commodore ! My time as a Seabee 1966 to 1969 I saw the officer strips & knew an Ensign thru Admiral, never heard any one of them being called Commodore. Sadly during my service time I only had interaction with maybe 5 or 6 officers. Before joining CBMU301 no officers except leaving boot and checking in @ Port Hueneme. Captain Holmes ( full commander ) Lt Kramer a Mustang, Ensign Kux the OIC of detachment Bravo Khe Sanh, LtJG Anderson temp OIC Khe Sanh, Marine Col Lownds CO Khe Sanh. After these MEN I only had interaction with PO 1 st Class's & Chief's till I separated @ Little Creek, Va.
Again THANK YOU Chief !
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PO2 Sam Messer
CPO (Join to see) - TY Brother ! Those men were so important to me in Vietnam their decisions meant life & death. Lt Kramer was reprimanded many times by the skipper for fraternization, every time he told the CO these men will be the ones to keep me alive! He was 60 + years old when we landed in Dong Ha as I said a Mustang.. Every night until he was sent on detachment he bought a case of beer & sat with us enlisted @ our Little Red Barn drinking the night away . The stories he would tell ! I can tell you the names of the majority of Khe Sanh CBMU301 Detachment Bravo MEN. I lived & worked with them every day for most of 7+ months. We had each other's 6 just like " B " Re-Con Marines did. " CAN DO "
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SN Greg Wright
Fun question with interesting responses from non Naval types. It took me back to my shipboard days of long ago...thanks for sharing.
Fun question with interesting responses from non Naval types. It took me back to my shipboard days of long ago...thanks for sharing.
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Number 2 made me giggle because when I was in North Korea we were all Mr. XXX or a nickname/callsign. That was for everyone except the Captain. We had to call him Major XXX because the KPA Colonel would not speak to anyone under the rank of Major.
I have never heard of 1.
2. Implies a non-Navy O-3 called Major as to not confuse people.
3. The boat driver
4. a rate. EOD is it's own rate now but it used not be. Going through a joint school NAVSCOLEOD I had an instructor BM1 XXX.
My dad was a Corpsman
I have never heard of 1.
2. Implies a non-Navy O-3 called Major as to not confuse people.
3. The boat driver
4. a rate. EOD is it's own rate now but it used not be. Going through a joint school NAVSCOLEOD I had an instructor BM1 XXX.
My dad was a Corpsman
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SN Greg Wright
MSgt John Carroll Wait, what?! You were in NK as a uniformed American? That's a story I want to hear more about!
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MSgt John Carroll
SN Greg Wright - Kind of. Our team was several different AFSC/MOSs and composed of a civilian forensic anthropologist and 12 military. None of us wore uniforms or anything military related. That is why I said kind of. We were uniformed Americans, just not in uniform. LOL. It was a JPAC Mission in August-September '04. We were doing remains recovery for GIs killed at the Chosin Reservoir. We found several sets of remains but only brought back (repatriated) two.
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A full bird Captain (O-6) is referred to Commodore when in command of a Destroyer or Cruiser squadron which only assigne to O-6's and above.
A lieutenant is referred to captain, when in command of smaller vessels I.e., patrol crafts or riverine squadrons.
Boats is short for boatswains mate the rate our Navy relies heavily on to moore our ships pier side, get our ships underway, anchoring our ships at sea and preserving the deckplates and painting requirements of all outside surfaces of the ship!
A lieutenant is referred to captain, when in command of smaller vessels I.e., patrol crafts or riverine squadrons.
Boats is short for boatswains mate the rate our Navy relies heavily on to moore our ships pier side, get our ships underway, anchoring our ships at sea and preserving the deckplates and painting requirements of all outside surfaces of the ship!
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PO1 Joseph Glennon
Master Chief, there's a whole slew of things Boatswain's Mates do that you left out (and didn't hint at!)...
Flight Deck crew on small boys
Run the refueling rigs on both sides of the ship-to-ship transfer hoses
Run the cargo rigs on both sides of the spanwire
LIBERTY BOATS!!! while anchored out (getting to drive boats was the single job among all the rest that convinced me to stay in deck and go Boatswain's Mate)
... there's so, so much more - but, really Master Chief - how could you leave out LIBERTY BOATS!? That's about the one driving reason that most of the newer rates have any idea about Boatswain's Mates!
Flight Deck crew on small boys
Run the refueling rigs on both sides of the ship-to-ship transfer hoses
Run the cargo rigs on both sides of the spanwire
LIBERTY BOATS!!! while anchored out (getting to drive boats was the single job among all the rest that convinced me to stay in deck and go Boatswain's Mate)
... there's so, so much more - but, really Master Chief - how could you leave out LIBERTY BOATS!? That's about the one driving reason that most of the newer rates have any idea about Boatswain's Mates!
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SN Greg Wright Honestly I learn a lot through your question - thanks for sharing. Way to go COL Ted Mc
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Thanks for tagging me SN Greg Wright. I am thankful for the US Navy veterans who provided the answers since I did not know any of them. :-)
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SN Greg Wright
SCPO (Join to see) I have, Senior. And my title meant no disrespect, and I apologize if you felt some from it. I simply did not know if these same things applied to Coasties. Please forgive me if they do.
If you look through my comments, you will find that I am a fierce defender of CG personnel, both because of their service as a combat branch, AND because of their oversight of my larger career as a Merchant Marine.
If you look through my comments, you will find that I am a fierce defender of CG personnel, both because of their service as a combat branch, AND because of their oversight of my larger career as a Merchant Marine.
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SCPO (Join to see)
I know you are, Greg. We can't use smiley faces on here, so you couldn't see I was jerking your chain. But, yes, the USCG does have its similarities. A Navy or USCG commodore would be equal to a Rear Admiral (Lower Half/Grade) in pay grade (O-7). Commodore is also an honorary title for VERY senior captains. As for the other questions, I see some replies from other military members are quite funny!!!
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1. If they command multiple squadrons or separate commands.
2. If he's in a major's billet, thus wearing that rank, but not afforded the actual promotion yet.
3. When they command a sea-going vessel.
Bonus: A boatswain's mate.
Bonus bonus for 2: When he's singing a key that isn't minor.
2. If he's in a major's billet, thus wearing that rank, but not afforded the actual promotion yet.
3. When they command a sea-going vessel.
Bonus: A boatswain's mate.
Bonus bonus for 2: When he's singing a key that isn't minor.
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1. When he is in Command of a Squadron of Ships.
2. I'm clueless.
3. That is easy my Uncle WWII Veteran was an E-3 Captain. Senior Man in Charge of a Naval Vessel in my Uncles Case a Landing Craft.
4. Boats, Senior Boatswains Mate onboard a Naval Vessel is Called Boats. Or Boatswains Mates in General. I had some Damn Good Boats take care of this Crippie.
2. I'm clueless.
3. That is easy my Uncle WWII Veteran was an E-3 Captain. Senior Man in Charge of a Naval Vessel in my Uncles Case a Landing Craft.
4. Boats, Senior Boatswains Mate onboard a Naval Vessel is Called Boats. Or Boatswains Mates in General. I had some Damn Good Boats take care of this Crippie.
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My son was first in Navy from long line of mostly Air Force family. But Army was previous years going back to WW1 and even AR. I have learned a lot about the Navy from him and history never knew.
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Good quiz. I have to say I enjoy learning all the odd things that people post about the branches.
Here's one for you Greg.
When is the only time that a Naval Officer will be referred to as Chief?
Here's one for you Greg.
When is the only time that a Naval Officer will be referred to as Chief?
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SN Greg Wright
CPO (Join to see) - Hah that's a good one. Makes me wonder if other services do that for their CO's. "Lackland, arriving". Of course, they don't blow whistles so probably not.
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PO1 John Miller
CPO (Join to see)
I've never heard that one. I've always called the Chief Engineer "CHENG."
I've never heard that one. I've always called the Chief Engineer "CHENG."
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PO1 John Miller
PO2 Orlando Sims, MPA
I wouldn't try that! I'd call him Sir, or Admiral if I knew him, or CNO if I knew him really well. :)
I wouldn't try that! I'd call him Sir, or Admiral if I knew him, or CNO if I knew him really well. :)
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1) An O6 on a vessel not acting as the Captain of said vessel, such as the ARG Commander.
2) Out of vogue now, but when you have non-Navy O3 aboard (in small quantities), they "may" be referred to as "Major" as a ship only has a singular Captain. Reference Starship Troopers by R.A. Heinlein for the tradition.
3) The Captain of a ship, as a position of authority. Although "Skipper" may also be appropriately because of Rank. My understanding was Commander+, but it's been a long time since I looked at it.
2) Out of vogue now, but when you have non-Navy O3 aboard (in small quantities), they "may" be referred to as "Major" as a ship only has a singular Captain. Reference Starship Troopers by R.A. Heinlein for the tradition.
3) The Captain of a ship, as a position of authority. Although "Skipper" may also be appropriately because of Rank. My understanding was Commander+, but it's been a long time since I looked at it.
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LOL, you got me on those. No clue.
Just reading Billy Budd again, I figured out where the term Midshipman came from.
Just reading Billy Budd again, I figured out where the term Midshipman came from.
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Suspended Profile
SN Greg Wright another amusing thing in ranks, is the differences in the meaning of "Chief". In the Navy and Coast Guard, E-7. In the Army, CWO. In the Air Force, E-9...
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1. When he is in charge of a CTF or a Group.
2. Umm when he's a major pain in the ass?
3. When they are the CO of a ship.
2. Umm when he's a major pain in the ass?
3. When they are the CO of a ship.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I should clarify on 1. When he/she is in charge of more than one unit that has a CO (not OIC). There are many examples even outside of the surface Navy (nearly every example I saw was that way).
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SN Greg Wright
MAJ (Join to see) - Your revision is more correct, LT. The guy in charge of CTF is generally called 'Admiral'. :)
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MAJ (Join to see)
SN Greg Wright Well....not usually. I work for one CTF and work with another CTF, both are Captains. In fact nearly all Commodores are Captains these days. I have yet to meet an Admiral one. There are quite a few CTFs and most aren't strike groups. Again, most examples are outside of the surface fleet folks (as in big ships).
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