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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Jul 19, 2018
SSG Gerhard S.
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Cpl Glynis Sakowicz
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You know, the older I get, the more complicated this issue gets within my own mind. Like any child of the Cold War, I had this view that a true citizen of any country, would step up and fight for it, should the need arise.

Then, as I grew up, and entered High School, heard the nightly body count, knew so many in uniform, and attended so many, many funerals, I let the idea wander thru my mind a bit, and I thought, "We are each a collection of our own decisions and actions, if that is the decision they make, and those are their actions, then so be it... because a time is coming when they will feel a sense of loss for not having those experiences so many of us do... and dang, you have congressmen swearing they were in Vietnam... you have Stolen Valor all over the place, by people, that just had to lift a a hand and swear in, just like we did, but chose otherwise. Are they regretting it now? Are they suddenly feeling Envy that we have something they never, ever will? Who knows... because I certainly don't.

What I do know, after serving in the tail end of Vietnam, loosing friends, relatives and experiences that were denied all of us, because of the loss of those men who may have crossed our paths in the years since... I don't feel the anger I used to. Now, I feel a sense of smugness, that there are those who will never understand, and I'm OK with that, because now, it seems they are coming out of the woodwork, pretending to be what they never had the guts to be... us.
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SPC Andrew Ross
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Edited >1 y ago
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Thinking about this question whether "we" should be upset about draft dodgers, is seems to boil down to... who is "we"?

Those who entered the all-volunteer Army really don't have any skin in the game in this question's context. Consequently, their perspectives are secondary.

Most Vietnam Vets have made peace with the past regarding this matter, but for those who may still harbor ill feelings, they have paid their dues in spades.

Let them have their say. Maybe it will serve to help work the bugs out. The Vietnam Vet paid the price regarding the draft dodger; not the rest of you.

As for the snowflakes, Democrats and Trump-haters, if you didn't serve in an era in which the draft was in effect, you have no standing to call the president a draft-dodger.
Trump had a medical deferment, meaning the military rejected him.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
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Sgt Dale Boston
Sgt Dale Boston
7 y
how many have plead guilty and are going to jail,
if this man piss on you and tell you it's raining you would believe him, don't come around me.
unfortunately there are many who would follow satin straight to hell and call themselves Christians.
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SP6 Alec Andrus
SP6 Alec Andrus
>1 y
Amen my brother. We don't need to say a thing to them. We did it and they didn't.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
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No. I'm a firm believer that service in the military is a calling of sorts. Just as a priest must be called by God to serve the church, I consider those who choose to serve in the military as something like 'monks' under the Constitution of the United States. That is not to take away from those who answered the call via the draft as well.
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MSgt Nondestructive Inspection (NDI)
MSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
That is a really good way to put it.
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PO3 Douglas George
PO3 Douglas George
>1 y
I agree with you except for one thing. I never met a serviceman who was a Monk. lol
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COL Jon Lopey
COL Jon Lopey
6 y
SGT Gunderson: I have to agree with you. The military is similar to a "calling" and it is a sacred trust. There are few occupations that require such commitment and willingness to die for your nation, service, and that warrior to your left or right. Thanks for your service! COL L
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SGT Kyle Bickley
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Yeah! 7 members of my family went to Vietnam. 2 came back in a box. 3 were drafted and 4 volunteered. To have a polical opinion is ok, to watch your neighbors and family leave to fight while you stand home and enjoy life isn't! I'll always have problems with people who did that, and then protest against my family for going! They got treated like dog shit (Vietnam Vets) when they got home. No matter how much love we gave them just happy to see them again, some ass wipe would always say awful things to them in public. That hurt them! So draft dodgers, yeah they can eat shit!
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Sgt Field Radio Operator
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7 y
SGT Kyle Bickley Well said. When I left Vietnam, I went to Okinawa for three or four days to pick up my uniforms, get a haircut, shots, etc. While there, A Marine that just arrived, told me that my best friend had been killed the day after I left. In the states, myself and others returning from Vietnam were in uniform so that we could fly military standby. At LAX, I had maggots yelling at us, calling us names, and trying to get in our way. One of the hardest things that I have ever done was not tearing into these protestors. To this day, I can't stand protestors of any kind. I am sorry for the losses suffered by your family.
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SGT Kyle Bickley
SGT Kyle Bickley
7 y
Mr. Hallock, I'm sorry for the way you were treated! The training I received from the Vietnam Vets later on in my hitch would save my life. I own you people big!
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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I personally would rather serve with people that wanted to be there, gay, bigender or what ever at least they want to be there I have friends that wanted to serve but couldn't due to medical reasons I don't begrudge them they still support the military, if given a deferment ok as long as you join after, as far as those that actively ran away I have no sympathy, as I see it now having a draft would be useless this new generation are weak have no pride in our country the only thing they know about war is at their game controllers, they want everything but don't want to wok for it, freedom comes at a cost, I did my 31 years lost much but wouldn't change it
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LTC Lee Bouchard
LTC Lee Bouchard
6 y
I think those who ran and went to Canada have not thought who had to replace them. Either as a volunteer or a draftee. Maybe their replacement came home in metal flag draped coffin while they remained FREE in Canada. I don't fault anyone who was deferred by legal default. However, I will never forgive or forget the draft dodger for being a coward. I do reserve the possible exception on a case by case basis.
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LtCol Robert Quinter
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"Dodging the draft" has so many personal definitions. There were many exemptions that were put in place by the authorities because they determined it was in the nation's best interest to defer, or excuse, an individual's service. I don't consider falling into one of those categories as dodging. The military desired an inductee to be qualified for unlimited service, therefor if you had a physical condition where you were not able to meet that qualification, the military didn't want you. I bear no ill will toward those who met those conditions for legal exemption or deferment.
I still do not understand or accept Carter's pardon of those who fled the states to avoid prosecution for dodging. They broke the law and turned their back on the nation because they thought their conclusions held precedent over the law of the land. Once people start deciding they are above the law, ,we have anarchy. I consider those who opted to use political connections ton avoid the draft to fall into this group. Clinton indeed was working to avoid service before graduation by contacting politicians to seek what he considered favorable treatment to avoid service.
I never considered service, either legally imposed or voluntary as personal servitude of indentured service. All of life has situations where there is expectation of forsaking some personal desire for the greater good. I, and most people, give up personal aspirations to fulfill obligations. I would have liked to have bought a Corvette in my younger days, but didn't because I knew my family would not have the advantage of the money I spent on the car for things that they, or I, considered necessary for their happiness and welfare. If I had chosen to ignore their welfare, I could have been picked up by the authorities and been forced to provide the appropriate support for my children and wife. Service defending a nation is one of the prices paid for being a resident of any nation if it is to survive.
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Capt Retired
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Edited >1 y ago
In addition to draftees the military had volunteers who only volunteered because they knew they would be drafted, Volunteering gave them some control.

I have no problem with anyone who dodged legally. Those who ran to Canada hold a lesser status in my book.
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SP5 Dennis Loberger
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Edited 6 y ago
Hi Charlie. Hope all continues to go well for you. I had a lottery number of 41. I knew I would be drafted. I had a wife and 2 boys when I was drafted in September 1972. My boys were 2 years old and 3 months old at the time. For the vast majority of my 2 years I was either at Ft Leonard Wood or deployed overseas in Japan. I spent about 30 days home over that 2 years. When I came home to ETS out of OART I was spit at in an airport terminal. When I got home, I was greeted by my wife and we went to her parents home. That first evening home my wife, Diane, and her mother were preparing dinner in the kitchen. I was in the living room actually watching TV in English. I heard Diane talking to our youngest, now 2 years old. I heard her tell him to go get Daddy for supper. He came in to the living room, walked right by me, picked up my picture and took it to the dining room He had no clue who I was. Despite being separated from my family for almost all of two years, being hated so much by the citizens of this great country it was palpable, being called names and spit at, having my kids not know me......I never considered myself a slave. Even though I was drafted, my service was, in fact, voluntary because they were other options I could have taken. Jail was not an option. Canada was not an option. Since I had other options, it was not involuntary. While I may not have volunteered, I approached my new role as I approached all previous jobs. I was the best I could be. I made E5 in 19 months. I learned a lot from my service. I am proud of my service and would make the same decision today. Neither slaves nor indentured servants had the options draftees had. As to whether or not I resent draft dodgers, it depends on the situation. I don't like the idea that the rich or connected could avoid what the rest of us didn't. On the other hand, if they were conscientious objectors and have lived the rest of their life consistent with their beliefs, I not only don't resent them I respect them.
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SSgt Terry P.
SSgt Terry P.
7 y
SP5 Dennis Loberger Very good response.
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LTC James McElreath
LTC James McElreath
7 y
Dennis,
I realize that the Vietnam veteran got a very raw by the citizens upon returning to leave the service. I hope that that has became more palatable, over the years. I would not like for anyone to go through that crap. Then there was no medical help for those not only catastrophic wounds but those with PTSD might had broke their spirit all the more! But I personally thank you for your service.
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COL Jon Lopey
COL Jon Lopey
6 y
Dennis: Thank you for your service. I too served during the Viet Nam Era. As a Marine, I too was assailed by anti-war types at the San Francisco Airport. When I returned from overseas, I used to fly home some weekends on the "Red Eye" out of LA (tickets were $13.00) (I was stationed at Camp Pendleton). When I made sergeant in the Marines, I wore my uniform home quite often. Despite the comments that came on occasion, it was worth it. I once had friends from high school as me if we were "baby killers." I didn't like the Hari Krishna's bothering us either but I lived in the Bay Area and endured it. My family was patriotic and so were many of my associates. Viet Nam Era veterans weren't treated well and they deserved more but now, studies show the vast majority of Americans hold them in high regard. These men and women held the line and re-built our military after the turbulent 60's and early 70's. I later served 30+ years in the reserves and especially after President Reagan, we didn't slow down and most of us put the past in our rear-view mirror. Thanks to the Viet Nam Era vets, the American people, in my opinion, learned their lesson and now our military is held in high regard, like them. Semper Fi, COL L
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SR Kenneth Beck
SR Kenneth Beck
5 y
My wife told me when our children were young, and I was deployed: she would show them my picture and tell them what "daddy" was doing.
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Sgt Mervyn Russell
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A lot of the men I served with in Vietnam were draftees, they served with honor. They were Marines in the fullest extent of the word. Could not have ask for a better bunch of men to have served with. I don't know much about the people that went to Canada, never met a person that evaded the draft. But I'm am from the South, I'm not sure if the people from the South takes this honor more serious than anywhere else in this Country? But, I served with folks from all over the Country and from other Countries as well.
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SSG Gerhard S.
SSG Gerhard S.
>1 y
Thank you for sharing your experience and perspective on this issue!
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COL Jon Lopey
COL Jon Lopey
6 y
Mervyn: I too was in the USMC (volunteer) during the Viet Nam Era. I agree with you that the vast majority of Americans that served during the war did so honorably and it didn't matter that much whether they were drafted or not. I retired from the reserves in 2011 after getting back into the service in the late 70's after my Viet Nam Era Service. I was a naïve kid (I went in on my 18th birthday) but it didn't take me long to realize the Marines were a great outfit and we measured one's relative worth by character and effort, not by what he or she happened to look like or where they were from. I was in good units with strong NCOs and officers. I saw some Marines with bad attitudes and most of them were non-draftees. It was a turbulent time but the vast majority of Marines were warriors I would give my life for and the vast majority of them would have done the same for me. It is an honorable profession and a just cause, even when our politicians or senior leaders on occasion screw things up. I feel sorry for my friends and others who did not serve because they missed a grand opportunity to serve others and to be a part of an organization that I think is the best in the world. Our fighting men and women have never failed and that goes for all the services, even when sometimes they were let down by politics, bad attitudes, ignorance, media indiscretions, and other events beyond their control. I would do it all again and I think most Marines and other service members would as well. The Marines and others that served in that time gave the current military a priceless gift - The American people now love and revere our military for the most part and realize what happened in Viet Nam to our returning warriors was wrong. The respect and admiration is due in large part because of those sacrifices made by Viet Nam Era veterans and of course, the professionalism, performance, and military readiness of our current Armed Forces is probably as good as it has ever been. I hope and pray we continue to heed the lessons of Korea and Viet Nam (and other wars) and remain vigilant, ready, and fully prepared for any and all enemies, foreign and domestic. Semper Fi, COL L
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SSgt Gary Andrews
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Those of us that came of age in the 60's and early 70's had the draft hanging over our heads. Some sought deferments, some opted to enlist, and some took their chances on being drafted. Everyone made their choice (I enlisted) and I don't question the choices made by others, not having walked in their shoes. I have more respect for those that served than I do for those that didn't, but I harbor no ill will against anyone. That said, people who criticized Bill Clinton for dodging the draft, but now defend Donald Trump's actions to avoid it, are not credible. Nor are those that excused Clinton, but now condemn Trump. Using one's military service, or non-service, as a political hammer to beat your opposition with is despicable IMHO.
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PVT Raymond Lopez
PVT Raymond Lopez
>1 y
C3bacddf
SPC Andrew Ross - THANK GOD THEY DID NOT GIVE A PSYCHIATRIC TEST BEFORE ENLISTMENT THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE TAKEN ME!!
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SPC Andrew Ross
SPC Andrew Ross
>1 y
PVT Raymond Lopez - Doubt it. They would have put you at the top of the list!
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PVT Raymond Lopez
PVT Raymond Lopez
>1 y
A46c9876
SPC Andrew Ross - Oh my God I forgot Catch 22!!!
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COL Jon Lopey
COL Jon Lopey
6 y
SSGT Andrews: I have to agree with you. I too enlisted in the USMC during the Viet Nam Era but the fact is, most adults did not serve during that time. While I have more respect for men and women who served, I judge a president more on what he does in office in support of the military and our veterans (and other issues important to the people). Some presidents who served, even in time of war, were less supportive than others. Thanks for your service. Semper Fi, COL L
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