A dummy’s guide to winning gun control debates | The Daily Californian

Much more could be said, but that’s a good start 1SG Dennis Hicks, starting at the school level and nearly all levels of law enforcement.

Thank you for the great share Joe.

I agree with you on the mental health aspect but it is not uniform throughout the country. Plus we don't truly do an adequate job of truly diagnosing those with mental health issues.

As for purchasing or ownership. I would like to see the following in every state. First is that you can only purchase from a registered gun seller. No more gun shows or anything like that. Second, You would also have a long wait period than we do now. Third, You would also have a more through background check to include the mental health aspects. Fourth, You also need to complete a gun safety and law program. Fifth, you have to register the firearm with the state government and understand that if you sell or lose the gun you must notify the state immediately or face severe penalties. Seven, you have to re-register the gun and get a new gun license every so often much like a car. Eighth, i would institute a red-flag system when some purchases more than X number of guns at one time or over a certain time period without a legitimate reason. Much like the $10,000 cash deposit limit. The goal of that is to prevent bulk purchases by criminals.

I would also ban the sale of AR-15, AK-47 and other rifles that are similar to military rifles. Anyone that wants a pistol, shotgun, traditional hunting rifle or muzzle loader could have all the guns you want as long as they are a responsible gun owner. I military style weapons are not used in the majority of murders, but removing them from the list of weapons people can purchase will eliminate a few murders with no negative consequences.

I would also ensure all states allow concealed and open carry but also designate certain areas as limited or no gun areas, such as courts, airports, hospitals, etc. For these places if you want to bring a gun you need to notify security there in advance. For open carry only certain types of guns could be carried and only in a certain manner. Properly holstered for instance. You can't carry you hunting rifle, shotgun or muzzle-loader out in town.

I know some of these are already laws in certain states. The issue is is that it is not uniform and many are not enforced correctly or at all.

I am also realistic that this will not eliminate homicides by gun, but it has a better chance of reducing the murder rate in the US than doing what we are doing now.

CDR (Join to see) - I'll go through your list. I have no problem with that. That is not to say that you have no valid points, just that I do as well. Bottom line is that there is evil in the world. Regulating ME will not stop that.

The US posses nearly, if not over, half of the firearms in the entire world. If the average gun owner was the problem we would make ourselves extinct in a very short time. Lets say there are 242 Million adults in the US. There are roughly 101 firearms per 100 adults. Quick math will tell you approximately how many guns MIGHT be in the US. In fact, a conservative estimate is well over 300 million.
There are just over 15,000 murders in the US annually. About 11,000 are by guns. No delineation of self defense vs. outright murder. OK. Chicago had over 700 murders in 2016 alone. Baltimore, DC and Houston follow. The rest of the country, while tragic, seems to be relatively safe. If gun owners were the problem these numbers would be statically higher, IMO.
For your points:
-If you haven't been judged as having a mental health problem then what would you add to the process? In many of the latest shootings, LE and FBI were aware of issues but failed to act. If mental health was documented as required there may not have been an issue. If it was, an NICS check would have stopped the purchase process. It is already illegal to buy a firearm if you have a mentally illness.

-What does the waiting period do? It MAY stop a heat of the moment murder, but someone with evil in their heart will not let a day, a week or a month get in the way. They will wait, or find another way. Murders with a blade far outnumber gun homicides. FBI fact.

-What gun safety and law program do you propose? You and I know murder is illegal, what else would you tell me about the law? Training? Not a bad idea. It usually comes after the purchase. Who pays for it? When? Where? Who sets the standard? Why can I buy a car without a driver's license? My ownership of a car isn't guaranteed by the constitution anyway.

-Why the restriction of ARs and AKs "similar" to military weapons? They are not the same functionally. There are far more lethal firearms and rounds on the market. All more readily available anywhere without restriction. Nearly any hunting caliber can penetrate most body armor now.
Chuck Schumer and the rest of that crew argued the "Black Gun" rhetoric during the Brady Bill hearings. There is no functional difference between them and any other semi-auto firearm. So it LOOKS evil? More murders are done with pistols than all rifles combined. Why is less than 1% of the firearms outright banned?

-Why no gun shows? I can sell a car privately. Why can't I sell a LEGAL firearm. Do you run a check to see if someone has a license or DUI conviction before selling them an automobile? No. Nor do you know that they won't grab a 6 pack and mow down innocent people.
You can go through an FFL holder to sell a firearm privately now. Nothing to stop it if you so choose.

-What is purpose of me registering my modest number of firearms? How does it prevent a crime? Who decides if I can have them?

-Why would I re-register and or acquire a license periodically? To what end? It serves no legitimate purpose and prevents no crime. As car ownership isn't a right according to the Constitution I have to take exception to your premise anyway.

-Why does my gun purchase of any amount concern you? You'd be shocked how many I buy in a year. My wife is.
Felons don't go to a gun store to buy guns. Those that come from a gun store to a felon are done through a "straw purchase". A felony.
There are over 23 million firearms background checks done in the US annually. We can surmise that this roughly correlates to the number of weapons purchased. If that is surprising to you, it shouldn't be. These are facts. Not knowing doesn't change it, nor does not approving.

I'm sure I've missed something. I've tried to be concise and factual, as well as respectful. Waiting for your response.

TSgt David L. Thanks for the response!!! Let me respond to your response first by saying that actually most of my suggestions are already in gun control laws either federally or in some states or local jurisdictions as you have also pointed out. What I am really proposing is that we make the laws uniform across the country and fill in the cracks that allows guns to fall into the wrong hands. I am going to address your response out of order

Waiting period - By having a longer waiting period, it would be possible to complete any required safety and law training, background checks, and thorough mental health evaluations. The cool down is an added bonus if it is even a factor.The goal really is to ensure both law enforcement and mental health professions feel certain a person can responsibility handle owning a firearm. Some countries like Germany look at if a person has DUIs or drug convictions and based off of that assumes you are not responsible enough to own a firearm. Maybe to draconian but you also can't deny that gun related homicide rates are lower in Germany.

Mental Health - the issue here is that it takes time to truly diagnose a mental illness and mental health professionals should be given that time to ensure a person is mentally healthy enough to own a gun. In Japan, the authorities will check your mental state and your recent drug tests, and they'll interview your colleagues and your family members about you. Could this have prevent a few of the mass shooting we had, I don't know to be honest but I know in Japan homicides by gun rarely occur and mass shoots never occur.

The gun safety and law training should focus on proper gun usage, self defense and how to store you guns and ammo safely. The law portion should cover all legal aspects of gun ownership to include carry rights, self defense rights, how to sell or report a missing gun and other gun related legal aspects. This is better educate and ensure a gun owner is responsible enough to own a gun. I doubt it would stop someone who is intending to kill someone but it might give a law enforcement office some pause when it comes to approving the ownership of the gun if you don't take the classes, training and exams seriously which a person who is intending to commit murder would probably not do IMO. In my car analogy this is similar to drivers education, drives school, and taking the drivers exam prior to getting our license.

I am in complete agreement with our remarks on the AR-15s and AK-47s and other similar rifles, except that they have no true purpose in the general public's hands. They are dumbed down military hardware. Plus they are easily modified to more rapidly shot and hold much more ammo unlike a Remington model 700 and other traditional hunting rifles. They are also the weapons of choice for most mass shooters. Plus right now AR-15 is the weapon of choice among mass shooter. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/14/ar-15-mass-shootings/339519002/

No gun shows - If you could ensure every firearm sold at a gun show went to a suitable person then I would be ok with it but it is to short a time period to ensure each person purchasing a gun is suitable to responsibly own said gun. Only legitimate sellers who have a FFL and buyers who have a private gun license would be allowed to attend. There is to much of a chance that someone could get a hold of a gun who should not have one. This is one of the main issues of why Chicago in particular has so many shootings. Gang members and other who buy guns for them can go to Indiana or Wisconsin and purchase guns in bulk because of the very liberal gun laws. If you can prevent this then gun shows are ok.

The registering of guns is part of the safe ownership of a gun theme. It is also similar to many other aspects of our lives. You have to register vehicles you own. Register businesses, and all sorts of other things to ensure that authorizes can ensure you are following all laws and regulations. Registering of guns also provided law enforcement notice that they maybe be entering a house with a weapon inside and also help track if guns are being illegal sold as the gun should be visually verified periodically. I would also say this is close to the military equivalent of inventories to ensure guns are not lost, stolen, misplaced and all accounted for. As long as the gun in particular meets all firearms codes and laws and is in good working order you can keep the weapons but if it is deemed an illegal weapons or in poor condition then law enforcement could confiscate it with a court order or with a court order force someone to bring it up to code to make it safe. This does remove illicit fire arms not grandfathered in and it also means that if you are caught with an illicit firearm not registered you face a stiff prison sentence. Geared more towards gang banger and other criminals.

There are a whole host of car registration and license renewal reasons, much like other licenses and registrations. There is also nothing in 2A to prevent registering a firearm periodically. Plus since registration would fall under state law much like cars the constitution is moot on that point.

I don't particularly care how may guns you purchase, but much like depositing large sums of money in to banks, large gun purchases have a higher probability of occurring in relation to illicit activity. If you can show that you are a collector and you are not turning around and reselling the guns off illicitly to gun runners then you should not have an issue with the authorities.

The NICS does a great job as an initial line of defense, no doubt about it. But In my opinion we need a layered defense ad NICs needs to be expanded. There are issues with the programs we currently have in place as well as the programs I mentioned above if they are not used in conjunction with each other. The ultimate goal with these programs is to ensure that those who own firearms are doing so responsibility and to legally prosecute those who do not and hopefully stop a homicide before it occurs. Hopefully it deters more people which in tern reduces gun related homicides.

Listen, I am very sympathetic to people who want to own firearms. I don't want to see guns taken away or for the most part restricted. I am glad you like and purchase firearms and that you use them responsibly. What I want to to make it so you can get guns as you want them but people who shouldn't have an extremely difficult time acquiring guns which right now is not the case and I think based off of what other countries have done these ides would correct that.

Looking forward to our response.

CDR (Join to see) - It's been a long day so I'm not going to go through the list again. We aren't going to convince each other that we are either right or wrong on any or all points. You have some lucid, valid points, which I can't say I've seen from everyone having this debate. I'm not saying I dismiss the rebuttals you've proposed, but most of it seems unneeded or out of unnecessary.

-Mental health isn't something that should wait until or if someone decides to buy a firearm. It likely does take a while to diagnose a psychiatric condition. How much effort and time do you suppose it would take? How much would it cost? How often would I have to submit to the process? As it seems directly tied to this case I am interested in this issue.
If competent medical, LE and/or FBI hadn't ignored this last case we might not be having this discussion anyway.