Posted on Jan 29, 2018
Secrecy and uncertainty surrounds Navy discipline for fatal ship collisions
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I think one important fact he leaves out about NJP is that they can appeal the decision to the next superior in the COC. LT Brad McInnis CDR Mike Kovack PO1 Jay Lefever Maj Marty Hogan MCPO Roger Collins LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SCPO Larry Knight Sr. SCPO David Lockwood PO1 John Y. CWO3 Dennis M. Capt Tom Brown CMDCM Gene Treants MCPO Roger Collins CPO (Join to see) CDR Mike Kovack CPT Jack Durish Col Jim Harmon PO2 Robert Aitchison SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas LT Axel Newe
Secrecy and uncertainty surrounds Navy discipline for fatal ship collisions
Posted from navytimes.comPosted in these groups: 
Surface Warfare Officer (SWO)
Surface Warfare Officer School (SWOS)
Legal Services
Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) Surface Warfare Officer School (SWOS) Legal Services
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 2
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So many mixed feeling on this one.
You get in a car after having a few drinks and kill someone...I call that manslaughter.
You put an inexperienced, unsupervised 23 year old into a sleep-deprived, over-tempo situation on a warship in one of the heaviest traffic areas in Asia and I call that negligence.
I want justice for the fallen, but I also KNOW these O's and SNCO's are going to be carrying those ghosts all their lives.
Sometimes makes me feel like one very fortunate person when I think of the close calls.
You get in a car after having a few drinks and kill someone...I call that manslaughter.
You put an inexperienced, unsupervised 23 year old into a sleep-deprived, over-tempo situation on a warship in one of the heaviest traffic areas in Asia and I call that negligence.
I want justice for the fallen, but I also KNOW these O's and SNCO's are going to be carrying those ghosts all their lives.
Sometimes makes me feel like one very fortunate person when I think of the close calls.
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LCDR (Join to see) But even if they appeal it up the COC did they not give up their rights in the lower NJP? And by appeal will their rights be re-instated? And isn't the NJP record still available to an appeal board?
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CMDCM Gene Treants
No, on a ship you have no right to say no to an NJP. This is up to the CO ONLY and the CO can defer to a CM if that is her/his wish. However, the ISIC can and will review if an appeal is made. I am not sure what rights you think were given up CWO3 Dennis M.?
Yes the NJP record goes up to the ISIC and there a decision is made as to the merits of the appeal. The NJP stays in the members record and if there is an appeal after leaving service, then that would be forwarded to the Board for the Correction of Naval Records, if that is what you are talking about.
HOWEVER, since this looks like it is being conducted on shore vice on ship, any of the Sailors involved, including the Commanding Officers MAY refuse NJP and request CM instead! In this case, that might be a smart option for ALL of them - IMHO!
Yes the NJP record goes up to the ISIC and there a decision is made as to the merits of the appeal. The NJP stays in the members record and if there is an appeal after leaving service, then that would be forwarded to the Board for the Correction of Naval Records, if that is what you are talking about.
HOWEVER, since this looks like it is being conducted on shore vice on ship, any of the Sailors involved, including the Commanding Officers MAY refuse NJP and request CM instead! In this case, that might be a smart option for ALL of them - IMHO!
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CWO3 Dennis M.
CMDCM Gene Treants - What I was referring to Master Chief was this Quote from the article mentioned in the post;
"Like a court-martial, NJP charges troops with violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and can end a service members military career.
Yet unlike courts-martial, NJP proceedings occur largely out of the public eye, and critics say the process offers less rights for the accused.
“I fear for those folks,” Junge said. “They have virtually no rights.”
Moran said on Aug. 17 the Fitz sailors facing NJP would include Cmdr. Bryce Benson, the captain of the ship at the time of the collision off Japan, where seven sailors died.
Last week, the Navy announced it would pursue courts-martial on charges of negligent homicide, dereliction of duty and hazarding a vessel against Benson and three unidentified junior officers.
Cmdr. Alfredo Sanchez, who led the McCain at the time of its fatal collision, faces the same charges. "
It went on to say:
The rights of the accused during NJP versus a court-martial are “worlds apart,” according to Patrick McLain, a former Marine Corps judge now in private practice.
Because NJP is administrative, the accused does not have the right to an attorney, McLain said.
The standards for proving guilt in an NJP proceeding are lower than for a court-martial, he said, and NJP involves less-stringent evidence standards.
A court-martial provides “greater rights, constitutional rights and rights provided under the Uniform Code of Military Justice,” McLain said.
The courts-martial process is typically open to the public, including the Article 32 proceeding held beforehand to decide whether the evidence is sufficient to support the charges.
But NJP proceedings are not open to the public and the Navy generally does not publicize the results."
So after an NJP, will the accused suffer because he/she took the NJP and that info will be available at a CM without council?
"Like a court-martial, NJP charges troops with violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and can end a service members military career.
Yet unlike courts-martial, NJP proceedings occur largely out of the public eye, and critics say the process offers less rights for the accused.
“I fear for those folks,” Junge said. “They have virtually no rights.”
Moran said on Aug. 17 the Fitz sailors facing NJP would include Cmdr. Bryce Benson, the captain of the ship at the time of the collision off Japan, where seven sailors died.
Last week, the Navy announced it would pursue courts-martial on charges of negligent homicide, dereliction of duty and hazarding a vessel against Benson and three unidentified junior officers.
Cmdr. Alfredo Sanchez, who led the McCain at the time of its fatal collision, faces the same charges. "
It went on to say:
The rights of the accused during NJP versus a court-martial are “worlds apart,” according to Patrick McLain, a former Marine Corps judge now in private practice.
Because NJP is administrative, the accused does not have the right to an attorney, McLain said.
The standards for proving guilt in an NJP proceeding are lower than for a court-martial, he said, and NJP involves less-stringent evidence standards.
A court-martial provides “greater rights, constitutional rights and rights provided under the Uniform Code of Military Justice,” McLain said.
The courts-martial process is typically open to the public, including the Article 32 proceeding held beforehand to decide whether the evidence is sufficient to support the charges.
But NJP proceedings are not open to the public and the Navy generally does not publicize the results."
So after an NJP, will the accused suffer because he/she took the NJP and that info will be available at a CM without council?
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