Posted on Jul 13, 2019
Why are many of America's military families going hungry? — NBC News
1.73K
85
28
15
15
0
Different reasons and circumstances but no matter how you size it up, there’s no excuse to see any of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines living like what is described in this article.
Why are many of America's military families going hungry? — NBC News
Posted from apple.newsPosted in these groups: 
Military Pay
Family
Military Pay Family
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
MAJ James Woods, Sir, I'm throwing a flag here...I surely don't have all of the answers, but there is a degree of personal responsibility that articles like this purposefully neglect to mention. I've never been part of an organization that consistently offers bonuses, job perks, and the number of financial incentives that we offer to our troops. There are countless educational seminars on finance, we host job fairs for family members on our installations, and the DoD as well as each branch offers a swath of financial assistance programs for our families in need. Many businesses provide discounts for our troops at a hit to their bottom line and we have things like health care, education, vacation and personal time, and life insurance perks all from day 1 on the job unlike many of our civilian counterparts. We have access to more information than any other time in recorded human history and can find "gigs" or jobs online to supplement our income.
No servicemember is forced to sign a contract and every new potential recruit raises his or her right hand knowing their pay grade and their required length of service. No specifics of the job come as a shock to someone who has done their research and made an informed career decision when enlisting, reenlisting, or commissioning.
Here's what I see more of...and no, it's not pretty: troops squandering their enlistment bonus on Dodge Chargers, Cadillac Escalades, or cars they simply don't need. They buy the latest tech gadgets, they live at or above their means, and they don't usually budget well or put money away for general savings or financial emergencies.
The article you shared said this, "...With four kids under age 10 and one not in school yet, like many young military families, the Mieirs estimated they would pay more in child care than they'd make by having Desiree join the workforce. Dan Mieir, her husband, works in Naval communications and makes $34,279 in basic pay before taxes. That's just under the federal poverty line for a family of six in most of the country..." While I don't presume to have the right to tell people what to do with their family and finances, who thought having 4 kids all close together in age while making less than the federal poverty line was agood idea? The systemic removal of personal responsibility from perceived "social injustices" like this has to stop! People need to rise to the challenge and solve their own problems versus asking others to fix the outcomes of their decisons for them. As leaders, we need to help wake our troops up to the seriousness of their actions, mentor them as they develop their lives and families, and help them find the assistance they need when they fall short of the mark. As we help our young men and women set their expectations correctly, this problem will start to diminish naturally. In short...the TLDR version, our soldiers are failing themselves...and we as leaders are also accountable - the American public is not.
No servicemember is forced to sign a contract and every new potential recruit raises his or her right hand knowing their pay grade and their required length of service. No specifics of the job come as a shock to someone who has done their research and made an informed career decision when enlisting, reenlisting, or commissioning.
Here's what I see more of...and no, it's not pretty: troops squandering their enlistment bonus on Dodge Chargers, Cadillac Escalades, or cars they simply don't need. They buy the latest tech gadgets, they live at or above their means, and they don't usually budget well or put money away for general savings or financial emergencies.
The article you shared said this, "...With four kids under age 10 and one not in school yet, like many young military families, the Mieirs estimated they would pay more in child care than they'd make by having Desiree join the workforce. Dan Mieir, her husband, works in Naval communications and makes $34,279 in basic pay before taxes. That's just under the federal poverty line for a family of six in most of the country..." While I don't presume to have the right to tell people what to do with their family and finances, who thought having 4 kids all close together in age while making less than the federal poverty line was agood idea? The systemic removal of personal responsibility from perceived "social injustices" like this has to stop! People need to rise to the challenge and solve their own problems versus asking others to fix the outcomes of their decisons for them. As leaders, we need to help wake our troops up to the seriousness of their actions, mentor them as they develop their lives and families, and help them find the assistance they need when they fall short of the mark. As we help our young men and women set their expectations correctly, this problem will start to diminish naturally. In short...the TLDR version, our soldiers are failing themselves...and we as leaders are also accountable - the American public is not.
(11)
(0)
MAJ James Woods
CPT Lawrence Cable - Actually I'll acknowledge your $1668 cause apparently looking at different source documents for military pay: military factor says $1385, federal pay.org says $1385-2451, militarypay.com says $1793, and militarybenefits.com says $1734. Either way, the 2019 DFAS pay chart it's $1884. And base pay though tied to inflation is also tied to Congressional approval with each budget. Why else do politicians brag about how they approved a % pay increase for troops; it's not automatic.
I didn't discount the fact services provide housing and meals, I'm just telling your outdated self that things have changed in regards to how on-post housing for military families work now compared to 10, 20, and 30 years ago. Today married Service Members that live on post receive BAH that is automatically deducted to pay the private family housing contracts. Government provided housing is being subsidized by authorizing BAH for military families living on post; and the BAH isn't being prorated based on the type of housing or soldier's rank. An E6 and O3 living in identical family quarters have their entire BAH deducted for those quarters. So yes I advise a soldier if they can find better ways to financially maximize their authorized BAH on their terms by moving off post, I encouraged them to do that. But you know as well as I do, some communities' rental environments with access to BAH area information will overinflate rent for average properties taking advantage of military families.
I'm an Army brat of 24 year enlisted veteran and oldest of four so I too know about living frugal and within means as necessary. So I will listen to the military families today and give most of them the benefit of the doubt that most are trying to do their best with what they have while also knowing some of them are creating their own unnecessary hardships.
I didn't discount the fact services provide housing and meals, I'm just telling your outdated self that things have changed in regards to how on-post housing for military families work now compared to 10, 20, and 30 years ago. Today married Service Members that live on post receive BAH that is automatically deducted to pay the private family housing contracts. Government provided housing is being subsidized by authorizing BAH for military families living on post; and the BAH isn't being prorated based on the type of housing or soldier's rank. An E6 and O3 living in identical family quarters have their entire BAH deducted for those quarters. So yes I advise a soldier if they can find better ways to financially maximize their authorized BAH on their terms by moving off post, I encouraged them to do that. But you know as well as I do, some communities' rental environments with access to BAH area information will overinflate rent for average properties taking advantage of military families.
I'm an Army brat of 24 year enlisted veteran and oldest of four so I too know about living frugal and within means as necessary. So I will listen to the military families today and give most of them the benefit of the doubt that most are trying to do their best with what they have while also knowing some of them are creating their own unnecessary hardships.
(0)
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
MAJ James Woods - I certainly agree that it may be possible to do better on the economy than in base housing if one is careful. But if I look at Ft Campbell as an example, the difference in BAH with Dependent from E-1 to E-7 is $250, not a lot of difference in the two. I don't know where you have served, but I've never seen a lot of difference in house size until you start hitting those upper NCO or Officer Ranks. However, the deal has always been that they either provide quarters or pay you, how they provide them isn't especially relevant.
I've heard the single guys gripe about living in the barracks, although what they call barracks and what I started in are two completely different animals, but I also understand a lot of reasons why you don't want them living all over town too.
My son is E6 currently in on base housing (no other kind where he is stationed). Married below Chief (E-7 for us Army types) live in the same housing. Nothing fancy, but perfectly adequate housing where he is at. Yes, he loses more by not getting BAH than some E-3, but he gets paid more too.
I was married when I went through IOBC, but the single classmates were quartered in the quad buildings. Two to a room with a shared bathroom. That wasn't even regulations back then.
I've heard the single guys gripe about living in the barracks, although what they call barracks and what I started in are two completely different animals, but I also understand a lot of reasons why you don't want them living all over town too.
My son is E6 currently in on base housing (no other kind where he is stationed). Married below Chief (E-7 for us Army types) live in the same housing. Nothing fancy, but perfectly adequate housing where he is at. Yes, he loses more by not getting BAH than some E-3, but he gets paid more too.
I was married when I went through IOBC, but the single classmates were quartered in the quad buildings. Two to a room with a shared bathroom. That wasn't even regulations back then.
(0)
(0)
MAJ James Woods
CPT Lawrence Cable - I don't think you're comprehending what I'm saying cause you keep saying a military family living on post isn't receiving BAH. That has changed at least for the Army as it pays for on post housing like rent to the DoD private contractor/caretaker.
Outside of the schoolhouse BOQs, I never chose to live on post so I could leverage BAH. Note this whole issue is about families not the single soldier but thank you for caring about them too. Since you asked, I've only been married 5 out of 18 years of my service, never lived family housing, and of the 18 years: 4-Korea, 2-Iraq, 1-Kuwait, 1-Afghanistan, 3-BOQs for the AR schoolhouse. So I'm confident the single soldier and officers are doing fine. I spent a lot of time listening to my married subordinates and their spouses as a leader and the concerns they had. That included the changes in family housing/BAH policy that occurred around 2005 and on.
As I mentioned in examples, your E6 son and an E7 if they lived in same housing on FT Riley in 2005 or FT Bliss housing today and would see BAH on their LES as income and automatic deduction cause that is how the family housing for those specific installations and a couple others I can confirm based on personal assignment experiences.
Thanks. This been fun but done repeating myself.
Outside of the schoolhouse BOQs, I never chose to live on post so I could leverage BAH. Note this whole issue is about families not the single soldier but thank you for caring about them too. Since you asked, I've only been married 5 out of 18 years of my service, never lived family housing, and of the 18 years: 4-Korea, 2-Iraq, 1-Kuwait, 1-Afghanistan, 3-BOQs for the AR schoolhouse. So I'm confident the single soldier and officers are doing fine. I spent a lot of time listening to my married subordinates and their spouses as a leader and the concerns they had. That included the changes in family housing/BAH policy that occurred around 2005 and on.
As I mentioned in examples, your E6 son and an E7 if they lived in same housing on FT Riley in 2005 or FT Bliss housing today and would see BAH on their LES as income and automatic deduction cause that is how the family housing for those specific installations and a couple others I can confirm based on personal assignment experiences.
Thanks. This been fun but done repeating myself.
(0)
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
MAJ James Woods - I understand that the show the BAH and then deduct it, but that's just accounting. When I was in and you were on post, it just wasn't on your LES. That's the only difference I can see.
(0)
(0)
9
9
0
Okay, I have to weigh in here. We do have some who are in financial trouble not of their own making but we have the ones who mismanage their money and they far outweigh the others. I had command for six years and in that time I had dozens who bounced checks or who had money issues. TWO of them, were junior with bigger families (they came in married) and needed support which we gave them until they made SSgt (E-5) and were able to manage. The others all mismanaged their money. They had more "stuff" than we did and we were Majors at the time. Electronic gear, games, etc. Your family comes first, you feed, house and clothe them. Moved them on base, took over their paychecks and sent them to counseling. Fed their families via the pantry and chaplains fund for six months; but I have to admit I was very pissed off about the lack of concern for the kids.
Every soldier/sailor/airman/marine and then their spouse if possible, needs a finance course.
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter LT Brad McInnis PO3 Bob McCord CW3 Dick McManus SGT John " Mac " McConnell CWO3 Dennis M. MSgt Stephen Council LTC (Join to see) LTC Stephan PorterLTC Stephen C. LTC Greg Henning SGT Gregory Lawritson Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. SGT Jim Arnold Maj Robert Thornton SFC Francisco Rosario LTC (Join to see) Sgt Deborah Cornatzer Sgt (Join to see)
Every soldier/sailor/airman/marine and then their spouse if possible, needs a finance course.
SMSgt Lawrence McCarter LT Brad McInnis PO3 Bob McCord CW3 Dick McManus SGT John " Mac " McConnell CWO3 Dennis M. MSgt Stephen Council LTC (Join to see) LTC Stephan PorterLTC Stephen C. LTC Greg Henning SGT Gregory Lawritson Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. SGT Jim Arnold Maj Robert Thornton SFC Francisco Rosario LTC (Join to see) Sgt Deborah Cornatzer Sgt (Join to see)
(9)
(0)
MAJ James Woods
Lt Col Charlie Brown Like I said, my experience with subordinates and peers I’ve seen where the financial challenges I described was not the minority.
And the general theme i read over and over is “personal financial responsibility” but it takes more than that in the long term and future generations. This is just one piece to the overall issue.
And the general theme i read over and over is “personal financial responsibility” but it takes more than that in the long term and future generations. This is just one piece to the overall issue.
(0)
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
MAJ James Woods - OK, the Army has never given you BAH when they provided quarters, so I really don't see the privatized housing as any difference. They either provide quarters or BAH. An E5 below the poverty rate in Kansas? Just how many children did this soldier have?
I suggest trying living on a single civilian income in the real world and see how that compares.
I suggest trying living on a single civilian income in the real world and see how that compares.
(1)
(0)
MAJ James Woods
CPT Lawrence Cable Son, go do your research before you say another word. In 2005 when they started privatizing family housing I was a commander at Ft Riley; the Army implemented a new policy of paying BAH to soldiers in family housing that would be automatically deducted to cover the housing service. My sister and brother in law experienced the same thing at Ft Lewis. They converted existing military provided family housing to contracted family housing maintained by a civilian DoD contractor.
Now if they reverted things back to how they used to be then that’s great but don’t tell me it never happened. Below is an excerpt from an article dated Jan. 7, 2019.
“Many bases today have "civilian owned" military family housing. Civilian companies are contracted to build, operate, and maintained family housing, and "rent" it only to military members, in exchange for their housing allowance.”
Today Ft. Bliss and White Sands Missile Range not only rent those on post housing to military but now offer them to retired veterans and DoD employees. But when the transition began on the Army posts I’m aware of over a decade ago it was FUBAR.
As for living on a civilian income in the real world I do just fine. Then again I’m a retiree with disability after dedicating my volunteer service to my country and have had good civilian jobs. I’m one of the fortunate one and not a good example. Perhaps you prefer my brother; been working between Walmart and Target for the last decade; moves around to find the best cost of living environment based on his income. It took him a long while and a lot of hours, hard work ethic, fortunate to have ACA for medical coverage; so he gets by just fine on the bare minimum. And at 29 for the first time signed a lease on an apartment. But we know life can always be better with a little help from an employer that cares about their employees. So don’t tell me I should try the single income life. Have plenty of family and friends and their first hand accounts. You as a labeled retiree and veteran who I bet earns as much benefits as I do if not more are in no position to criticize or question other people’s hardships (military and civilian) as being legitimate concerns.
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/military-family-housing-versus-off-base-3353935
Now if they reverted things back to how they used to be then that’s great but don’t tell me it never happened. Below is an excerpt from an article dated Jan. 7, 2019.
“Many bases today have "civilian owned" military family housing. Civilian companies are contracted to build, operate, and maintained family housing, and "rent" it only to military members, in exchange for their housing allowance.”
Today Ft. Bliss and White Sands Missile Range not only rent those on post housing to military but now offer them to retired veterans and DoD employees. But when the transition began on the Army posts I’m aware of over a decade ago it was FUBAR.
As for living on a civilian income in the real world I do just fine. Then again I’m a retiree with disability after dedicating my volunteer service to my country and have had good civilian jobs. I’m one of the fortunate one and not a good example. Perhaps you prefer my brother; been working between Walmart and Target for the last decade; moves around to find the best cost of living environment based on his income. It took him a long while and a lot of hours, hard work ethic, fortunate to have ACA for medical coverage; so he gets by just fine on the bare minimum. And at 29 for the first time signed a lease on an apartment. But we know life can always be better with a little help from an employer that cares about their employees. So don’t tell me I should try the single income life. Have plenty of family and friends and their first hand accounts. You as a labeled retiree and veteran who I bet earns as much benefits as I do if not more are in no position to criticize or question other people’s hardships (military and civilian) as being legitimate concerns.
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/military-family-housing-versus-off-base-3353935
Is it Better to Live in Military Family Housing or Off-Base?
Most military members with dependents have options of living on-base for free or off-base with a housing allowance. There are pros and cons to both.
(0)
(0)
CPT Lawrence Cable
MAJ James Woods - I'm aware of the switch to contracting the housing, A lot of Universities are doing the same thing. But the service has always been that they either provided you housing on base, how they provide it isn't really very relevant, or they give you BAH to live on the economy. How well the BAH worked out depended on your location. When I was at Benning as an O-1, it covered the expenses of living off post, but not much else. My E-6 son was stationed at Bethesda, lived in Germantown to be able to cover his housing expenses with his BAH.
But I have this conversation with my son, who joined later in life too, and we both agree that it would be very difficult for him to maintain his present lifestyle if he got out now and tried to make a living in the civilian world. Even if he were able to find a job that matched his base pay and allowances, I don't know of any civilian employer that pays 100 percent of your medical or gives you 30 days a year off.
I'm an Army Guard Grey Area Retiree, so you would be wrong about the benefits I get.
But I have this conversation with my son, who joined later in life too, and we both agree that it would be very difficult for him to maintain his present lifestyle if he got out now and tried to make a living in the civilian world. Even if he were able to find a job that matched his base pay and allowances, I don't know of any civilian employer that pays 100 percent of your medical or gives you 30 days a year off.
I'm an Army Guard Grey Area Retiree, so you would be wrong about the benefits I get.
(1)
(0)
7
7
0
Financial and sex education is needed for the young people now joining the military for a paying Job!
Today’s young people have needs that must be addressed, corrected and guided w/o them learning the hard way
MAJ James Woods
The scary part is that many of them will be promoted and unable to guide their charges either!
Tomorrow, I intend to post a link for the CFPB regarding a link to a new on-line too re: financial management for troops. TTO LATE TONITE!
Today’s young people have needs that must be addressed, corrected and guided w/o them learning the hard way
MAJ James Woods
The scary part is that many of them will be promoted and unable to guide their charges either!
Tomorrow, I intend to post a link for the CFPB regarding a link to a new on-line too re: financial management for troops. TTO LATE TONITE!
(7)
(0)
MAJ James Woods
Financial planning management training...yes. Sex education? Really? Paying soldiers with and without families based on standard cost of living inflation and giving them the benefits they deserve for volunteer service? Yes. Politicians and DoD are the last groups of people to lecture Service Members about balancing a checkbook and prioritizing resources.
(0)
(0)
SP5 Dennis Loberger
As a man who deals with young people on a regular basis prior to entering one of the military services, young people of all stripes need thorough financial training to face real life. That begins with math skills so they can properly analyze choices they are faced with. Whether going in to the military or not, young people of today are poorly served in this area by our education system
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google