Posted on Mar 29, 2015
Arab Leaders Agree to Joint Military Force - Isn't this about time?
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It is about time...
As I now sit back and watch world events unfold from the sidelines, knowing I am not going back, I have been thinking more and more that none of the problems in the Mid-East region will get better, until the the people that live there decide: (1) enough is enough, and (2) start taking action, (3) start taking the lead, and (4) start taking responsibility for defeating and destroying threats to their region, and all of us.
We can't want it more than them. They have to want safety, security, and the end to violent extremism more than us. Or at least they need enough to take the lead and take the fight to the enemy relentlessly, until they no longer exist, have the will to fight or the ability to regroup. With our support as needed.
There are many scenarios in US history, where we went places with the most noble interests at heart (and I am sure some selfish reasons too), but in the end, things never worked in the long haul because the regions, countries, or governments we were supporting and fighting with/for did not want the same result we wanted, or did not want it as bad a we did. We can't will it for them.
To succeed, there (anywhere) - they need to have a real will (Political, Military, and the People (Clausewitz) ) to achieve their strategic aims, political aims, and war aims.
We need to focus on supporting the fight, not leading every fight.
Time for everyone else in the region to step and deal with this.
http://news.yahoo.com/arab-leaders-agree-joint-military-force-egypts-sisi-102805435.html
As I now sit back and watch world events unfold from the sidelines, knowing I am not going back, I have been thinking more and more that none of the problems in the Mid-East region will get better, until the the people that live there decide: (1) enough is enough, and (2) start taking action, (3) start taking the lead, and (4) start taking responsibility for defeating and destroying threats to their region, and all of us.
We can't want it more than them. They have to want safety, security, and the end to violent extremism more than us. Or at least they need enough to take the lead and take the fight to the enemy relentlessly, until they no longer exist, have the will to fight or the ability to regroup. With our support as needed.
There are many scenarios in US history, where we went places with the most noble interests at heart (and I am sure some selfish reasons too), but in the end, things never worked in the long haul because the regions, countries, or governments we were supporting and fighting with/for did not want the same result we wanted, or did not want it as bad a we did. We can't will it for them.
To succeed, there (anywhere) - they need to have a real will (Political, Military, and the People (Clausewitz) ) to achieve their strategic aims, political aims, and war aims.
We need to focus on supporting the fight, not leading every fight.
Time for everyone else in the region to step and deal with this.
http://news.yahoo.com/arab-leaders-agree-joint-military-force-egypts-sisi-102805435.html
ISIS
Iraq
Politics
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 20
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I agree it is about time COL Charles Williams, to form a "League of Arab Nations" so they can start taking care of the problems themselves. I believe they've learned (from us) that building a coalition makes it easier on all versus trying to take on a mission unilaterally. I do have a concern of what this might morph into though, and wondering how this might impact Israel down the road.
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COL Charles Williams
My concern CSM Michael J. Uhlig is that they various organizations around the world (Arab League, European Union, and the list goes on (even NATO)) but they are generally not focused on defense or security.... at least in an active sense. They have been generally focused on commerce, the market etc..
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I question if this was the intent of he "Lead from behind" from POTUS. We are finally seeing Arab Nations take up arms against Terrorists. We are getting Saudi to counter Iran. I wonder if this was really what was needed. It is a shame that it only took ISIS to unify the Arab Nations to unit. For once the Arab Nations have joined together to do something instead of fighting Israel.
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CPT (Join to see)
COL Charles Williams To fight ISIS. ISIS has already attacked Lebanon and briefly took a town. Hezbollah didn't attack due to the lack of Iranian guidance. Now, they are getting into the fight. Thanks to Iran.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183777
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/183777
ISIS Invades Lebanon, Hezbollah Steps Back
Hezbollah says it will not join the fighting against ISIS in Arsal, but is giving logistical support to the Lebanese Army.
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CSM (Join to see)
Saudi Arabia+Jordan=Sunni=Bath Party=Al Qaeda Iraq=ISIS
Iran+Iraq+Syria = Shia=Militia=Majority
Nothing has changed the sectarian divide has just increased. This does not bode well for us if Iran starts taking the land previously held by ISIS. Oh yeah, we are cutting a deal with them on their nuclear program today. Lead from behind is not what we needed to do.
Iran+Iraq+Syria = Shia=Militia=Majority
Nothing has changed the sectarian divide has just increased. This does not bode well for us if Iran starts taking the land previously held by ISIS. Oh yeah, we are cutting a deal with them on their nuclear program today. Lead from behind is not what we needed to do.
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MSG Brad Sand
CSM (Join to see)
I think we should let them kill each other. I think we should support the Kurds and Jordan...and appear to support Saudi Arabia. Let the Iraqis and Persians bleed themselves dry...not that the Iraqis would actually fight. The France of the Middle East.
I think we should let them kill each other. I think we should support the Kurds and Jordan...and appear to support Saudi Arabia. Let the Iraqis and Persians bleed themselves dry...not that the Iraqis would actually fight. The France of the Middle East.
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COL Charles Williams
I will get beat up about this, but I've been thinking about this for a while. I will answer the questions with some questions,
1. Does it really make the USA safer to have sizable Armies in the Middle East that could eventually be comparable to ours in capabilities and skill?
2. Is it not better to have them dependent on the USA, since they have such a strategic resource that we need?
3. Once they build up their Military Size, skills, and capabilities...What is to stop them from putting the squeeze on us...put an embargo or sanctions on us... and then what could we do about it?
4. Does it not make more sense (for the USA) to have them dependent on us?
Commence the beating....
I will get beat up about this, but I've been thinking about this for a while. I will answer the questions with some questions,
1. Does it really make the USA safer to have sizable Armies in the Middle East that could eventually be comparable to ours in capabilities and skill?
2. Is it not better to have them dependent on the USA, since they have such a strategic resource that we need?
3. Once they build up their Military Size, skills, and capabilities...What is to stop them from putting the squeeze on us...put an embargo or sanctions on us... and then what could we do about it?
4. Does it not make more sense (for the USA) to have them dependent on us?
Commence the beating....
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LTC (Join to see)
LTC Paul Heinlein , interesting premise, though I do not think it is anything more than plausible, not quite probable. I think one could surmise that we are a driver to helping this regional force come to fruition. The individual countries in the area depend a great deal on the US for military advisement and equipment, knowing we enable them to do what they do. It is their best interest to keep us tied to them as it is in our as well.
If the relationship was severed across multiple countries, that would be a major cause of concern, clearly.
Conversely, and one could assume the main reason why this regional support is a good idea, if they are together, then the chances of them being against each other is reduced. Possibly a goal is to head off the Iraq-Kuwait that launched us into the region at a level not seen since WWII.
Having spent most of the last 14 years over here and seeing many of the different country military forces evolve, it is actually great to see how they have evolved. But to your point, we should look for the signs of any potential shift on our relationships that would lead them towards your "course of action".
This is a much better thread then thinking about pirates!
If the relationship was severed across multiple countries, that would be a major cause of concern, clearly.
Conversely, and one could assume the main reason why this regional support is a good idea, if they are together, then the chances of them being against each other is reduced. Possibly a goal is to head off the Iraq-Kuwait that launched us into the region at a level not seen since WWII.
Having spent most of the last 14 years over here and seeing many of the different country military forces evolve, it is actually great to see how they have evolved. But to your point, we should look for the signs of any potential shift on our relationships that would lead them towards your "course of action".
This is a much better thread then thinking about pirates!
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SPC David S.
Interesting perspective LTC Paul Heinlein. However much like LTC (Join to see) has stated I feel that our time of influence in the region has waned much like that of the French and British influence that once was prominent after the Ottoman Empire ended. While the French and British mainly tried to subjugate the region by force which led to a number of revolts we have tried likewise with more subversive tactics as well as by force in regime changes. However these effort I feel have only further complicated the region and has helped in fostering extremist ideologies to which have reverted the region to the likes of 7th-century Islam and the Umayyad Caliphate. In all honesty we have tried to change the region with policy and by force and both have failed. The results of our efforts have forced the leaders to align to stop further collapse of the region such as with Yemen. The only real way I see left in influencing or making them dependent on us is by affecting their wealth that is derived from the regions oil reserves. However driving the price down on oil has global economic ramifications. I just don't see how we can go about forcing the region to be dependent on us other than to keep buying oil. I feel that until we shake our insatiable need for oil we are playing a bluff hand. Personally I think its better for us all to have some skin in the game. Yes undoubtedly with alignment they are stronger and present a greater threat but to stabilize the region its going to take a concerted effort from all parties.
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I think they realized that our influence in policy change has lost much of its credibility and is best to leave us out and to fix the problem from within the region. Seriously talks with Iran on Nukes, left a mess in Iraq, supply arms to Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Israel. I think they are done with us and are just as tired of our help as we are of helping them. Good for them in fixing their our problems.
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SGT (Join to see)
I was thinking the exact same thing. Makes me wonder how much faith they have in the US right now, or the lack thereof... Not that they shouldn't fight their fight... Just makes me wonder.
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SPC David S.
Yes I think our latest attempts of foreign policy with Iran and nuke talks has been an eye-opener as to what we think is a good idea. It appears that we have an innate ability to alienate whomever we align ourselves with, first Israel, then Iraq and now Iran. I bet they picture us as foolish cowboys with white hats and guns a blazing. Well almost all are good guys.
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"We can't want it more than them. They have to want safety, security, and the end to violent extremism more than us. Or at least they need enough to take the lead and take the fight to the enemy relentlessly, until they no longer exist, have the will to fight or the ability to regroup. With our support as needed."
Sir, this mimics my rants from previous.
The Middle-East is a Regional Stability issue that affects Global Stability. That's why we're there.
But it's "their" problem, not "ours." Like an alcoholic uncle, until he actually wants to fix the problem... there's nothing you can do to help. Once they want to fix the problem, support will work.
Sir, this mimics my rants from previous.
The Middle-East is a Regional Stability issue that affects Global Stability. That's why we're there.
But it's "their" problem, not "ours." Like an alcoholic uncle, until he actually wants to fix the problem... there's nothing you can do to help. Once they want to fix the problem, support will work.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS . I think your right. I thought that pilot being burned alive would cause more unified action against these terrorists.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
COL Charles Williams I hate to take this stance, because this will seem "cold blooded" and I don't mean it to, but Lt. Muath al-Kaseasbeh's murder was roughly 60 days ago.
Honestly, "in my professional opinion" (as an Intel Analyst), we're actually 3-4 months ahead of schedule for something like this. I wasn't expecting it until June/July at a minimum. Again, I don't want to sound callous, just the political process in the Middle East is "different" than ours, and the fact that they have this many Sovereign nations talking this "early" is HUGE.
I think King A.'s (Jordan) propaganda campaign (twitter in full battle gear) was just the fire to light under the other Arab nations' collective a%#%^'s. He upped the game, and now the rest must "save face" by being part of the effort, or they will look like cowards.
Honestly, "in my professional opinion" (as an Intel Analyst), we're actually 3-4 months ahead of schedule for something like this. I wasn't expecting it until June/July at a minimum. Again, I don't want to sound callous, just the political process in the Middle East is "different" than ours, and the fact that they have this many Sovereign nations talking this "early" is HUGE.
I think King A.'s (Jordan) propaganda campaign (twitter in full battle gear) was just the fire to light under the other Arab nations' collective a%#%^'s. He upped the game, and now the rest must "save face" by being part of the effort, or they will look like cowards.
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SGT (Join to see)
I don't want any boots on the ground, but I hope the US support with our fire power will continue to deplete ISIS supplies and leaders. From what I understand about the militants is that they have backup, after backup of leaders who can fall in where the dead one fell out. Am I wrong about that? One other ting I thought of was the oil issue. Yesterday on local news, it was reported we will soon run out of places to store our oil. I don't think that will happen, but if it does, ISIS may resort to holding us hostage for oil. What do you think?
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What an opportunity in today's military clime and place....I will wait to see if they can agree...it's way to early. One step closer to a One World Govt.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
It's time they police themselves, will they ever become a United Front that we need to worry about? I'm sure Israel is praying they don't. This globe trotting we do on the backs of our citizens is getting really old. Let the Sunni kill the Shite....why do we need to be the trigger-man?
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COL Charles Williams
Definitely looks good on paper and I have been saying it is going to take the "moderate" Muslims to stand up to the "extremist" Muslims to ever have peace.
With that said, I don't see anything drastically changing. As long as there continues to be a sectarian divide in religion, there will be a sectarian divide in people. Sunni/Saudis/ISIS will continue to try and dominate Shia/Iraq/Iran and vice versa. Ethnic cleansing and atrocities will continue to happen on both sides. Sounds to me like the start of a major internal conflict in the Middle East and in my humble opinion, we should stay out of it.
Definitely looks good on paper and I have been saying it is going to take the "moderate" Muslims to stand up to the "extremist" Muslims to ever have peace.
With that said, I don't see anything drastically changing. As long as there continues to be a sectarian divide in religion, there will be a sectarian divide in people. Sunni/Saudis/ISIS will continue to try and dominate Shia/Iraq/Iran and vice versa. Ethnic cleansing and atrocities will continue to happen on both sides. Sounds to me like the start of a major internal conflict in the Middle East and in my humble opinion, we should stay out of it.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks for your comments and insights CSM (Join to see) ! I appreciate your insights!
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COL, Sir: I agree, nicely stated.. Correct me if I am wrong, however, I believe that, this is the way and the reason our forefathers broke from England, and started the United States.. They felt: Enough was Enough, They started to take Action, They took the Lead, and They took total Responsibility for their Actions, we have made mistakes.. but the result is successful world leadership. creative ideas, and one of the worlds powerful Nations, and Bless America..
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COL Charles Williams
PO3 Michael James I am no history expert, but I believe you are correct. There are no easy solutions in that region. This has been going on for centuries... even longer.
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SGT (Join to see)
You are correct COL Charles Williams. I think history does repeat, and has repeated it's self in the Arab nations.
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Sir-
Very respectfully, I would be weary about this. As many of us know, Arabs have a cultural propensity to say one thing, and do another. They often act like this with foreigners knowing that it'll be too late to figure it out until the train wreck happens. Very few elected leaders in either party show any signs of wising up to this or caring. Sure, the Joint Military Force seems like 'about time', but give it time, somehow the US will be suckered into more Middle East blunders, if not in Iraq, than any of the other countries there. Moreover, this kind of duplicity is all but accepted as a fact of life among people there. I think they are only doing this because ISIS has shown too much vigor as an up-start power, and its really only because these dudes can't be shown-up by people they view as inferior life-forms among their own citizens. But give it time, this League will fly off the train tracks long before it leaves the station, and it'll be civil war in Saudi Arabia next.
Of these, the Saudi Royalty is the most worrying, in my opinion. Even silver-spooned Ivy League kids who have never worked a menial job in their lives, and never will, aren't nearly as blue-blooded as the Saudi Royalty. Some of them may have some credit with their military, but woefully too few to maintain a cohesive Army.
Very respectfully, I would be weary about this. As many of us know, Arabs have a cultural propensity to say one thing, and do another. They often act like this with foreigners knowing that it'll be too late to figure it out until the train wreck happens. Very few elected leaders in either party show any signs of wising up to this or caring. Sure, the Joint Military Force seems like 'about time', but give it time, somehow the US will be suckered into more Middle East blunders, if not in Iraq, than any of the other countries there. Moreover, this kind of duplicity is all but accepted as a fact of life among people there. I think they are only doing this because ISIS has shown too much vigor as an up-start power, and its really only because these dudes can't be shown-up by people they view as inferior life-forms among their own citizens. But give it time, this League will fly off the train tracks long before it leaves the station, and it'll be civil war in Saudi Arabia next.
Of these, the Saudi Royalty is the most worrying, in my opinion. Even silver-spooned Ivy League kids who have never worked a menial job in their lives, and never will, aren't nearly as blue-blooded as the Saudi Royalty. Some of them may have some credit with their military, but woefully too few to maintain a cohesive Army.
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COL Charles Williams
Thanks SPC Angel Guma!!! Very well stated, from someone who obviously has first hand knowledge of the two faced nature of our dealings. Also, remember there is not comparison between a professional volunteer military, and the conscript Armies of most of these nations.
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