Posted on Jun 15, 2015
Army Commander requires troops to wear ACUs with no badges/combat patches?
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What is RP"s thoughts on this "extreme makeover" Army edition?
http://m.gazette.com/fort-carson-colonel-makes-uniform-adjustment-during-training/article/1553718?custom_click=rss
http://m.gazette.com/fort-carson-colonel-makes-uniform-adjustment-during-training/article/1553718?custom_click=rss
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 81
"After training, soldiers will go back to displaying their impressive achievements. But in the field, they are all the same."
I really don't see an issue with that at all. For one it's not like you go to the field and all of a sudden forget that your squad leader or team leader deployed or has this badge or that tab.
Secondly, I personally maintain uniforms for garrison and the field; garrison uniform has the wings sewn on and deployment patch while the field uniform usually only has the patches and no badges and in most cases the deployment patch only serves as an extra patch in case an airborne tab gets lost in the woods or a buddy loses theirs.
I really don't see an issue with that at all. For one it's not like you go to the field and all of a sudden forget that your squad leader or team leader deployed or has this badge or that tab.
Secondly, I personally maintain uniforms for garrison and the field; garrison uniform has the wings sewn on and deployment patch while the field uniform usually only has the patches and no badges and in most cases the deployment patch only serves as an extra patch in case an airborne tab gets lost in the woods or a buddy loses theirs.
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COL Jon Thompson
Great response. When I first scanned through the article, I missed the part where it was only for training. I agree with you that it is not an issue in the field. Now if it was a full-time commander's policy, I would have an issue with it. For my last two deployments, we could not wear any pin-on badges on our ACUs (that was before the sew on badges). But I did always have my Ranger Tab on and I would be carrying a tab with me in the field.
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I was always told that you had to do something to in order to excel and be above the rest in order to be considered one of the best. Now, you can do it, but you can't show it? Most of the people I served with either didn't care about what others had, or it made them want to try harder. The things you earn mean something to most of the people who earn them, yes, they do cause jealousy among others, mainly people who do not have the drive to even try to accomplish what others have. I think that people who have earned something should be allowed to wear it, so that they can stand out among their peers, we do not need the everyone is equal so here's your trophy so showing up attitude in the military.
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Jaut another reason to be glad im out... Those patches are badges of honor and i feel ita a disgrace not to wear them
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I thought that the commander had flipped his lid and required the troops to wear a uniform that doesn't comply with 670-1.
I was wrong of course. He just made everyone strip off hard earned badges and patches. That's all. He's only ALMOST crazy. But what do I know! LMAO
I was wrong of course. He just made everyone strip off hard earned badges and patches. That's all. He's only ALMOST crazy. But what do I know! LMAO
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1LT William Clardy
TSgt Joshua Copeland, just accept that TSgt David L. reads typos embarrassingly quickly.
And TSgt David L., I want to know if you find a way to delete a comment.
And TSgt David L., I want to know if you find a way to delete a comment.
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TSgt David L.
TSgt Joshua Copeland, I will just edit it and leave a different comment, hopefully something of worth.
1LT William Clardy, thanks for pointing out my quick proof reading skills. After doing awards and decs, OERs and NCOERs (in Army speak), point papers, etc. I got pretty proficient at proof reading. I'll try and not do it as much! LOL :
1LT William Clardy, thanks for pointing out my quick proof reading skills. After doing awards and decs, OERs and NCOERs (in Army speak), point papers, etc. I got pretty proficient at proof reading. I'll try and not do it as much! LOL :
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hhmm...couldn't find anything in the regulation re commanders banning the wear of badges and/or patches that the soldier is authorized to wear.
Regulation does say the commander can allow items to be placed in the uniform, not removed from it.
Commander can also determine the uniform to be worn. Not what patches or badges to be worn.
Gotta love Fort Carson...beautiful scenery.
Regulation does say the commander can allow items to be placed in the uniform, not removed from it.
Commander can also determine the uniform to be worn. Not what patches or badges to be worn.
Gotta love Fort Carson...beautiful scenery.
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SSG (Join to see)
Here are my thoughts on the issue: the regulations are not (or should not be) subject to interpretation. They are written the way they are for a reason. I'm just a young SSG (10 years in service), but those are my thoughts. However, in this case, the term 'pick your battles' comes to mind.
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SFC (Join to see)
CW2 Bob Searle - Yes Sir, that certainly applies to wear of SSI FWTS or "combat" patches on the ACU uniform or even the old BDU's but wear of the badges on your chest can be a different story and certain rules apply. No CIB for example without a combat patch.
A Soldier may not be required to wear badges on the work uniform but I highly doubt a Paratrooper in the 82nd would be walking around with at least no "wings" on his or her work uniform, and what Paratrooper wouldn't want too ! At least, that was the way it was when I was in the 82nd !!
A Soldier may not be required to wear badges on the work uniform but I highly doubt a Paratrooper in the 82nd would be walking around with at least no "wings" on his or her work uniform, and what Paratrooper wouldn't want too ! At least, that was the way it was when I was in the 82nd !!
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1SG (Join to see)
SSG Ryan R. -
Don't stop there. You gotta keep reading.
AR 670-1
paragragh 2-6:
"f. Commanders will not require individuals to purchase optional uniform items. Likewise, they will not restrict or discourage them from wearing optional uniform items authorized by this regulation, except in those instances where uniformity is required, such as parades or formations.
Don't stop there. You gotta keep reading.
AR 670-1
paragragh 2-6:
"f. Commanders will not require individuals to purchase optional uniform items. Likewise, they will not restrict or discourage them from wearing optional uniform items authorized by this regulation, except in those instances where uniformity is required, such as parades or formations.
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I think it is just plain stupid on the Brigade Commanders part. Is he listening? If I were still serving I would have to follow orders but I don't have to agree with them and I don't.
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SFC William Farrell
Its an issue for some CPT(P) (Join to see) because it was a stupid order that really didn't make any sense. Along the lines of his order he probably could have said we are doing field duty in civilian clothes. Would that have been an issue! And in your next official photo, I'd like to see you with just your epaulettes on!
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Absolutely- some of these soldiers deployed 3-4-5 times and absolutely are deserving. Should we prevent soldiers from wearing special skill badges as well?
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Why is it wrong? Do we need to wear those to show we have experience? "Hey guys I deployed and I know everything, come seek guidance from me!!!" That rank on your chest should be an indicator of being a SME, not a f'n combat patch. I understand the reasons of wearing it for the fallen, but is a 2 week break going to kill anyone?
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I can understand both sides of the argument. however, I must take the side of the Joe.....yes, we are supposed to work as a team. however, people earn those badges, and not all of us are Rangers and Special Forces.this is just another attempt to adapt to a collectivism or a combination type of society. just think about it... We got drinking age laws.....I guess we need to band NCO clubs, bowling alleys, or the clubs downtown just because some people are not old enough to drink. I kinda hope you see where I'm going at
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The Commander might order the Soldiers to remove all the stuff from there Uniforms but when your in a unit you know you has what Tab's who has what combat patch, the Commander stripping everyone down to make the new guys fit in all that does make it easy for the guys with some time in to give them a hard time. I mean who has not hazed new boot's before. The hell this Commander is bringing down on his new guys. I Can see where he meant for his plan to lead, but knowing and having talked to a bunch of young soldiers the new guys in 1 group and everyone else messing with them in the other group, oh forgot the SFC and up group when there around everything is great.
Just let the new guys get some schools in maybe a gunnery or 2 and all is well. Scouts Out
Just let the new guys get some schools in maybe a gunnery or 2 and all is well. Scouts Out
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It's up to the commander I don't see why it's such a big deal to people that aren't affected by it in in this brigade and it gives me no issue that I can't wear it my soldiers know what I have done and seen they have asked and I have shared it's about cohesion not accomplishments as a leader you train not take recognition if you can't understand that you need to reset your moral compass
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SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA
the big deal is not about the patches really, its more the fact that he is going against a part of the regulation that explicitly tells him not to restrict or discourage the wear of items authorized to wear. by regulation.
if the boss breaks the rules...
if the boss breaks the rules...
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Teamwork is sometimes shown to be more conductive in a working environment by establishing a standard. The Commander is sets the standard. In doing this he must rely on his NCO's to enforce and adhere to the standard.
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What sort of self loathing is this? Combat patches have always been an inspiration to those of us who haven't been to combat. They symbolize the veteran leader that has seen the elephant and knows what it takes to survive the experience. So now we want to take away the patch in the field? I know why the COL wants to do this. He wants to even the playing field because he has junior officers and NCOs with no combat experience trying to train the next generation of troops. Well you want that guy with the patch present to add validity to the tactics and techniques you are training. I can't believe a BDE CDR would take the PC feel good route.
I think this is BS but I am retired and have no skin in the game. What do you all think?
I think this is BS but I am retired and have no skin in the game. What do you all think?
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These patches are something to be proud of, and a record to show fellow soldiers. The young troops look up to someone who has "done it all", and since when has a Colonel had the authority to go against the regs. Maybe the Colonel has had desk jobs all his career and has a problem with NCO's, who are all patched up.
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Regardless of whether or not its in the field, they should be able to wear it if they want. I wear mine not because I feel the need to show others I've deployed. I wear it because that's how I honor my brothers that I spent a year dodging bullets and rockets with. And for the guys we had that didn't make it home. So for me, the patch on my right arm has more of a personal meaning to it.
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I like it. I've never cared for any of the flair anyway, and he's right; it's someone's character that matters, and not much else.
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SFC Nikhil Kumra, this was done by a commander with poor experience molding soldiers.
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CPT Pedro Meza
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, thank you for the Bio, there is a disconnect between his Bio and his orders; just doesn't makes sense.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
CPT Pedro Meza I "think" I see where he is coming from. For a singular training evolution, there is nothing wrong with sanitizing the uniform to build esprit de corps. He's not saying people can't wear them ever, just for this one event. If he said not "flair" ever, I would be completely on board with most posters regarding the issue.
But for a singular event, does the presence of those indicators promote or detract from training (or neither)? If it doesn't actively promote the training, then is it needed?
But for a singular event, does the presence of those indicators promote or detract from training (or neither)? If it doesn't actively promote the training, then is it needed?
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CPT Pedro Meza
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, Thank you and I see your point, for me it hard to understand given the fact that I have a third MOS as an instructor since 1984, which also explains my photo; I was an instructor roll player during AT 2011.
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