Posted on May 17, 2016
Did CSM Basil Plumley steal valor by wearing unauthorized awards?
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"The U.S. Army is investigating allegations by a military researcher that the late Command Sgt. Major Basil Plumley -- a legend in the airborne and infantry communities -- wore unauthorized combat and valor awards that exaggerated the wartime achievements that made him famous.
"Among the many documents Siddall provides in his research is an Oct. 2, 2015, letter from Army Lt. Col Wil Neubauer, chief of Awards and Decorations Branch, confirming that Plumley was authorized to wear one CIB and states that "we are unable to verify" the Combat Infantry Badge with "one star" listed on Plumley's DD Form 214.
"In that same photo, Plumley wore valor awards he did not earn, Siddall wrote. Plumley wore a Silver Star with a bronze oak leaf cluster, which indicates a second Silver Star. Plumley also wore a Bronze Star with a V device for valor and one bronze oak leaf cluster for two awards.
"The October 2015 letter from the Army states Plumley was authorized only one Silver Star and the Bronze Star with one oak leaf cluster, not two OLCs. The letter also states that Plumley was not authorized to wear the V device with his Bronze Star medals."
Please read the article before commenting.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/05/17/army-investigating-we-were-soldiers-legend-for-inflating-award.html
"Among the many documents Siddall provides in his research is an Oct. 2, 2015, letter from Army Lt. Col Wil Neubauer, chief of Awards and Decorations Branch, confirming that Plumley was authorized to wear one CIB and states that "we are unable to verify" the Combat Infantry Badge with "one star" listed on Plumley's DD Form 214.
"In that same photo, Plumley wore valor awards he did not earn, Siddall wrote. Plumley wore a Silver Star with a bronze oak leaf cluster, which indicates a second Silver Star. Plumley also wore a Bronze Star with a V device for valor and one bronze oak leaf cluster for two awards.
"The October 2015 letter from the Army states Plumley was authorized only one Silver Star and the Bronze Star with one oak leaf cluster, not two OLCs. The letter also states that Plumley was not authorized to wear the V device with his Bronze Star medals."
Please read the article before commenting.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/05/17/army-investigating-we-were-soldiers-legend-for-inflating-award.html
Stolen Valor
Vietnam War
Awards
Edited 8 y ago
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 139
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Read the entire article. Appears to show that the Late CSM may have inflated his quota of awards. For one, I would never have put out in the press. This should have been handled "Back Channel" as there is no reason to blacken his reputation as he is no longer here to defend himself. I believe that benefit of doubt should go to the CSM.
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SGT Shannon Weaver Logan
Well said. I agree with you. In his own right he deserves honor. However hr is not here to defend himself. Maybe he started to suffer from Dementia. If that is thre case it could explain what he did. Everything is not always black and white.
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CPT Kevin Connolly
Only a REMF among REMFs would second-guess CSM Plumley. On the other hand, Dugout Doug...well, you know, some things don't need to be said.
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CPL (Join to see)
This is chicken shit garbage. Go figure the military can’t find records from six decades ago. Didn’t the archives also burn in the 70s? Either way go after a hard charger for some petty crap so many years after his death is petty as fuck.
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"...Plumley's DD 214 does not match the official letter from the Army's Awards and Decoration Branch"
"The fact that the DoD could not verify all of the CSM's awards is not surprising given the lack of rigor in the maintenance of records in the 1940s"
Harsh charges against a man that is dead and cannot defend himself. The discrepancies in the official records explain how these screw-ups can happen.
"The fact that the DoD could not verify all of the CSM's awards is not surprising given the lack of rigor in the maintenance of records in the 1940s"
Harsh charges against a man that is dead and cannot defend himself. The discrepancies in the official records explain how these screw-ups can happen.
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SSgt Boyd Welch
There are also what's known as "desk awards". Happened during Vietnam. Gratetful commanders called a soldier in and handed him an award pulled out of his desk to honor duty that wouldn't be recognized or survive the paperwork flow up the chain of command (especially those about to get out)....
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SGT Randall Smith
Leave the man alone. If nothing else he inspired others and the younger troops. I have on my wall at home the Army Commendation Citation from Viet Nam and one from my unit in Germany. Neither one is on my DD214. I caught shrapnel in Viet Nam and the CO gave me a Purple Heart. It is not on my DD214 either. When I went to the VA about 8 years ago to file a claim was told my unit never existed in Nam. I took my DD214, the Commendation citation and was told that was not enough. Did I have a unit patch or could I show a picture of it. And that was how I finally verified that I was a veteran.
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SPC Robert Coventry
I think there are bigger fish to fry, he can't defend himself one star or two stars on a CIB is totally different then a wanna be. RIP CSM
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After the shit he went through in the Ia Drang I am sure CSM Plumley gave a rats ass about awards. As others have mentioned I seriously doubt the administrative paperwork was completely accurate during that period of time. He probably didn't give two shits about updating his 201/ERB before he retired and I am sure it reflects on his DD 214, that happens all the time in this time period.
He was a great American just let the man rest in peace.
He was a great American just let the man rest in peace.
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SSG Douglas Espinosa
Exactly, mistakes happen. I am missing one of my deployments on my DD-214, but have all the proof. But don't care enough to have it corrected either.
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PFC Craig Karshner
We all are in agreement let the hero rest in peace. This should have been handled much better than that. He is a true hero..Rangers lead the way. God bless you my fellow warrior and us all.
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I don't know. Looking at his ribbon rack it doesn't look like he's inflating anything. I've seen officers who never left Fort Dix with ribbons over the shoulder.
If this great man were alive, he would probably pull a ragged piece of paper from a folder he kept in a foot locker to prove that he was authorized to wear what he wore.
Some Commissioned weenie probably lost the original orders.
If this great man were alive, he would probably pull a ragged piece of paper from a folder he kept in a foot locker to prove that he was authorized to wear what he wore.
Some Commissioned weenie probably lost the original orders.
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SGT Randall Smith
LOL, sounds like John Kerry. Some how he was awarded the Silver Star with
V device. Ignore the fact that he put himself in for it and he approved it.
V device. Ignore the fact that he put himself in for it and he approved it.
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LTC John Griscom
SGT Randall Smith - Along with his three bandaid Purple Hearts. Rumor has it one was for throwing a grenade into sacks of rice and some had to be pulled out of his butt.
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SGT Randall Smith
Things often do not show up on your DD214. I have hanging on my wall the Army Commendation Award and received it 3 months after I came home from Nam. Next to it is hanging a Certificate of Achievement from the 32ns Sig Bn in Germany. They sent it several months after I was transferred. Neither shows up on my DD214.
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Unfortunately, this soldier is not here to defend himself. I would just leave this one be and let him and his family rest on the fact that he served his country well.
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PO1 (Join to see)
FN Richard Fightmaster - You aren't in Navy any more, shipmate; you don't need to call me P.O.; Katie is fine.
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Personally, I'm pretty careful about pissing on the WWII/ Korea era guys legs when it comes to awards. On several occasions I've seen the old guys be questioned and they had orders for everything it just didn't show on the DD214. Also lots of records were damaged and outright destroyed in the fire at St. Louis.
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LCDR Terry Hall
CSM, well said. My father (WWII VET) talked about how they would get Medals on the battle field and get the paperwork afterwards. This is the case for CSM Plumely
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SGT Randall Smith
His ribbons don't mean a damn thing. He did not wear them for profit or to show off. He was a soldier and he fought for this country. Just one CIB should show he was good. But he had several CIB's and those are earned. I never met the man but I wish I could say I had.
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Sir, I'm torn on this one. I'd like to see it left alone. The man is a legend regardless of service, but with the Stolen Valor clowns running rampant today, his records should be corrected to show the correct awards and accomplishments. I STILL would feel fine if it was left alone.
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SFC (Join to see)
I want it left alone. This guy doing the digging needs to have his ass chewed out, this is disrespectful. Records get lost, or destroyed all the time. The man fought in 3 wars. Trust me, he's not the only one out there missing documentation for a ribbon or badge.
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SSG Warren Swan
SFC (Join to see) - I agree, BUT even the CSM would value the integrity aspect of it. He lived the creed before there was one. So while I disagree with this "fact finding" mission, I support it in the fact that Pumley himself would want to be remembered for what he did and how he led, not by some bitch ass ribbon he could give zero fucks about. If this will make the "investigator" sleep good at night fine. Fuck em. Not going to change how I feel about the CSM, and I doubt it'll change anyone else's minds.
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Who in here has all of their medals on their DD214? I know I have a few that never made it there including my LOM. I have the certificate, but if this is lost then after I pass will someone look at my photo and say I was stealing valor? I fully believe specifically for the WWII, Korea and Vietnam area, that there were paperwork mishaps and they just never got on his records. Maybe this one should be put in the back woodshed and left there.
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SSG Sean Knudsen
I myself have awards and orders that never made it to my 214 and cannot count the number of fellow veterans that outright commonly laugh and not only make the same claim as mine, they prove it as well. With today's documentation system one would truly believe awards would be correctly added but, think again. Last but not least, many WW11, Korea and Vietnam War veterans records are incorrect and to no fault of the veteran. In closing I have to say that personally we should not be bad mouthing any fellow veteran that sacrificed his entire career to our nation and who is now deceased. After all is said and done at the end of the day, I'll stand next to him, his family and his service and defend all three. Brothers for life.
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SGT Randall Stanaway
Or if you had an award pending when you ETS or retire. DD214 is created without the award that hasn't been signed yet. I've seen soldiers get out countless times without an award that ended up getting approved after they were out.
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LTC (Join to see)
I have an award the Army refused to allow to be put into my records. It doesn't show up on my DD214. Much like CSM Poll, if it is burned up no one will every know, most of those involved are dead. Hal Moore's endorsement of Plumely is all the commentary I need
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Hell, they are arguing about his CIB with two stars and his record show that he served in three conflicts, WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. I'll give the man the benefit of a doubt on anything he wanted to put on his uniform.
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I think there must be an explanation for this. Because I cannot believe that man with such honor and integrity can do such a thing. They are going to say that after so many years of service he all of a sudden decided to steal valor. No something smells and it smells bad.
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Capt Tom Brown
COL Sam Russell - Agree with Col Russell on this one. Those are a lot of awards to loose track of all paperwork on in spite of record keeping at the time and the large fire many years ago at the main records facility. The CSM had nothing to gain and perhaps as LTC Stephen F. suggests there are mitigating circumstances which may have been contributing factors. I would prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
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MSG (Join to see)
COL Sam Russell - Sir, things I am finding is that he served with the 187th Airborne Regiment and participated in Operation Tomahawk and fought at Pork Chop Hill. I remember a huge fire at the repository where millions of records were lost in the fire. It is possible that some of his records were there and lost.
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SSG (Join to see)
My grandfather was a ww1 veteran and an enlisted man turned OCS retired a Full bird COL and if you request his records from the Army they respond with most records from pre 1970s were lost in a fire in thr warehouse holding them in St Louis.
So according to the army he got out after 4 years as a corporal and yet we have ID cards as a COL and letters from presedent truman to him when he was the commander of the Connecticut national guard addressing him as COL. It is totally believable that they lost them
So according to the army he got out after 4 years as a corporal and yet we have ID cards as a COL and letters from presedent truman to him when he was the commander of the Connecticut national guard addressing him as COL. It is totally believable that they lost them
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
In WWII, you could get a CIB for being in a unit that "fought as Infantry". That is how my Uncle Bill got his. He was horse cav, 26th US Cav (PI Scout). After the war he got a CIB and BS because Wainwright made a provisional Infantry unit out of them after they ate their mounts.
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