Posted on Apr 15, 2017
Jabari Powell
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Why do some soldiers have both and some have either or?
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MAJ Operations Officer (S3)
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I'm authorized 2 CSIBs but do not have a CAB or CIB. The CSIB indicates the unit a Soldier deployed with. Everyone who deploys to a combat zone, regardless of their role or level of contact experienced, earns the right to wear one. A combat action badge is awarded for direct contact with the enemy. Many people have deployed multiple times and not had direct contact with an enemy force.
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MCPO Couch Potato
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>1 y
CPL M Miller - Not wrong at all. If you want the CIB, you should have chosen the 11 or 18 series for your MOS. You want the CMFB, you should have chosen to be a medic.
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Sgt Dale Briggs
Sgt Dale Briggs
>1 y
Seems strange to be an 03 and you get a badge for pulling the trigger, it’s your job and it’s what your supposed to do. Don’t need a badge.
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CPL M Miller
CPL M Miller
4 y
MCPO (Join to see) - So what you say is that all MOS are not soldiers first? If an MOS outside of that you describe does all required but does not get recognized for the same job? simply because they were not in an MTOE SLOT?
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SGT(P) Satellite Communication Systems Operator/Maintainer
SGT(P) (Join to see)
4 y
CPL M Miller - They get a CAB not a CIB, the truth is, only certain MOS do direct action. Other MOS may simply be put in the situation an infantryman could be in, but the fact still stands that you didn't sign up as a "Human Resources Specialist" to kick doors in. But to be honest who cares? Do you really want to be that desk jockey that brags about that one time he got shot at?
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CPO Steelworker
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Edited 8 y ago
The CIB is for your Infantry guy's that engage in combat actively. The CAB created because of the conflicts and type of warfare we have been fighting for over 15 years. The intent was to give all non combat MOS's a device just like the CIB, because only Infantry can receive that device for coming in contact with enemy. The battle field of these conflicts changed because of IED's and support forces needing to operate outside the wire in the same Areas as Infantry unit's, but not exactly direct Action Combat, more defensive turning into offensive to kill the enemy or defend themselves. Todays Battlefield does not have the old FEBA (Forward Edge Battle Area) and FLOT (Forward Line Of Troops) concept. You can also be an Infantry guy and because you are on a JTF that is none infantry and come in contact you can not receive the CIB, because it is not an Infantry type unit, but yet they are still exposed to enemy contact. Now I am Navy but was on a JTF in Iraq and was NCOIC, so I had to write some up and did write one Infantry and Marine up, the 11B did not like it because CIB is what an infantry guy should have.
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SSG Matthew Searcy
SSG Matthew Searcy
>1 y
1SG David Spalding - Not even close to correct, Top. With all due respect, unf*ck yourself. (Source - Pogue with a CAB and Bronze Star for engaging in a complex IED/DF attack in Iraq.)
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SPC Herold Bush
SPC Herold Bush
>1 y
CPO (Join to see) - Chief , I think you might be overlapping on some of your breakdown of the Army Branches,, Combat Arms is made up of the following branches: Combat Arms : Air Defense Artillery, Armor, Aviation, Engineers, Field Artillery, Infantry, and Special Operations Forces, Cyber. Combat Support is made up: Chemical Corps, Military Intelligence, Military Police Corps , Signal Corps , Combat Service Support is Adjutant General Corps ,Chaplain Corps, Finance Corps, Medical Corps, Ordnance Corps, Quartermaster Corps, Transportation Corps. And the Cavalry is definitely a combat mos.
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CPL M Miller
CPL M Miller
4 y
SPC Herold Bush - Yeah what HE said... lol
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MSG Thomas Currie
MSG Thomas Currie
>1 y
LTC Gene Moser - NO Armor units received CIBs in Vietnam - some people in some Armored Cavalry units did receive a CIB.

Consider the situation back then. An Armored Cavalry platoon consisted of 10 identical combat vehicles. Nine of those ten identical vehicles were crewed by 11D personnel, one was crewed by 11B personnel. All performed exactly the same mission under exactly the same conditions every minute of every day. The 11B personnel automatically got the CIB. The 11D personnel got nothing. So, yes, some commanders would use their valid authority to reclass some of the 11D's to 11B and rotate everyone through the TO&E slots to legitimately receive the badge they earned.

Was that the right thing to do? Maybe, maybe not. It certainly would have been morally and logically better if the army had been willing to acknowledge that Infantry had ceased to be the only or even primary combat arm, but that never happened - and never will.

Throughout most of GWOT the Army insisted on believing that "A brigade is a brigade is a brigade" with every combat arms brigade equal and interchangeable. The entire unit deployment system hinged on that false assumption. That same attitude trickled down within the brigades, so that commanders pretended that A Battalion is a battalion is a battalion and even a company is a company is a company -- regardless of branch, regardless of TO&E, regardless of unit strength, regardless of unit organization. That's how the Army ended up rotating out a light infantry company and replacing it with an artillery battery assigned the same mission covering the same area. That's how the Army ended up rotating tank battalions to Iraq without any tanks, letting them use the same HMMWVs that the infantry battalion before them used to patrol the same area. But, of course, "Infantry" are the only soldiers who really engage in direct combat.
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SSG Edward Tilton
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Do the Army combat identification badge and the combat action badge not go hand in hand?
WO1 Network Circuit Engineer
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Just to clarify, the "Combat Identification Badge", are you talking about Shoulder Sleeve Insignia (SSI)? In that case, the patch is called the SSI-FWTS or Should Sleeve Insignia for Former Wartime Service.
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WO1 Network Circuit Engineer
WO1 (Join to see)
8 y
Disregard, I believe I understand what you meant. The CSIB, worn on the ASU.
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SSG Operations Sergeant
SSG (Join to see)
8 y
My CIB and blue cord just peed their pants when I thought he was interpreting "CIB" as "combat identification badge."
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SSG Robert Peterson
SSG Robert Peterson
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SSG (Join to see) lol, you beat me to it@
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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You get a CSIB for being deployed to a hostile fire area - whether or not hostile fire occurred is not relevant, just that you were there.
CABs (and CIBs and CMBs) require direct engagement with the enemy.
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SSG David Stafne
SSG David Stafne
>1 y
I got out in ‘93 and understand a lot has changed. Back then they CIB was only awarded to Infantrymen in an Infantry billet at an Infantry Brigade level or below. Does the Brigade level and below requirement apply to the CAB?

During Desert Storm an Infantry PLT from the 10th MTN DIV was deployed, they were mission was to provide perimeter security for an ADA Site, some 25 miles from the front line. None of them received a CIB because they were OpCon to the ADA Unit which was a Corps asset; they weren’t Infantry and above Brigade level.
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1SG Civil Affairs Specialist
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SSG David Stafne - No the rules are the same for the CIB and the CAB does not have an echelon requirement, just that you were engaged by the enemy.
That GW platoon got screwed, because they were in Infantry unit (platoon) below brigade. It doesn't matter who they were attached to. If they were in Division HQ, those are the guys that don't get the CIB because they are at echelons above brigade.
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SSG Kenneth Ponder
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CIB dates from WWll, CAB should have never been authorized. It was to pacify Soldiers who couldn't get a CIB,
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MSG Johancharles Boers
MSG Johancharles Boers
>1 y
What about you Scouts, Tamkers and other brothers who earn the CAB....that stand side by side with you in a fire fight - you don’t feel they deserve recognition...
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
LTC Ray B. (Ret)
>1 y
Don’t spread unsubstantiated rumors. That’s how stupid people increase their ignorance
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
LTC Ray B. (Ret)
>1 y
Bit wrong. 27 Oct 1943, LTG MCNAIR
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SFC Food Service Specialist
SFC (Join to see)
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I was a cook working as personal security for the Battalion CO
Of a Infantry BN. We were ambushed in Hoe A Boshe, Taji, Iraq. I was awarded the CAB for direct contact with the enemy while the LTC and the HHC CO who was with us were awarded the CIB
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SSG Environmental Specialist
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The combat patch is earned after being in a combat zone for a set period of time, the CAB is earned if you take direct fire in action as a non infantry participant.
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
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you forget the indirect fire, many have missed this
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SFC Rick Forlines
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All of my 'stuff' is in the same box that it has all been in for 25 years Thank God
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SFC David Xanten
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The CIB, CMB or CAB are awarded for actual combat operations and if you get either one you can't get the other. Why is that?. I think it is about time that the Combat Arms Units get some sort of award, showing that they were engaged with the enemy, however in Vietnam there wasn't anything except the CIB and CMB. As an 11E I wasn't given anything although by percentage the MOS had the highest causality rate of any MOS. I did however get the CIB because I had the the 11B duty MOS for 6 weeks. I am not sure that I like the fact that a supply clerk gets a been there medal (CSIB) though.
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
LTC Ray B. (Ret)
>1 y
68W is combat medic
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1SG Armor Senior Sergeant
1SG (Join to see)
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And to clarify the Mos for the youngins, 11E in the Vietnam area was an Armor Crewman
= Tanker
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SFC David Xanten
SFC David Xanten
5 y
1SG (Join to see) - It also included the PC Drivers, which I think was the reason so many 11E's were killed. I hit two mines while I was an 11B40 and 11D40, before getting my Tank which also hit 7 mines before the 8th put a hole in the belly armor. Mines were more of a nuisance to Tanks but a real problem for the PC's.
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SSG Paul Headlee
SSG Paul Headlee
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1SG (Join to see) Thank you. I was just about to google that.
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MSG David Johnson
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I think there may be some confusion about badges in the question.
The CIB is the Combat Infantry Badge, not identifier. As for the CAB, this award was designed for those whose jobs took them to the non existent front line. So if you were under direct fire, within a certain distance of a detonation, or earned a Purple Heart. I know there are more qualifiers than that, but it's a simple answer.
I believe the refs state that the CIB, and the CAB can not be worn together.

The only way the CAB is automatic is if you received the Purple Heart.

I think you meant the CSIB, that's just like your unit patch, but you get it for service in a combat zone for a specified amount of time. 30 days in country, air crews and Navy accumulated days towards the 30 day mark, or if you were WIA prior to the 30 day mark, but the 30 days may have been changed since I was retired in 2008.
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LTC Ray B. (Ret)
LTC Ray B. (Ret)
>1 y
My branch took me outside wire everyday . My 11b bro’s got their CIBs and I got the CAB. Everyday was a fight.
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COL Charles Williams
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Jabari Powell what MAJ (Join to see) said. The combat patch means you deployed with a particular unit. The CAB, CIB, and CMB mean you have been involved with an actual engagement with armed enemy of the US... meaning yiou were fired upon, or attacked... Or fired on or attacked an enemy. Not everyone who deploys actively fightd or engages (or is engaged by the enemy).
The latter (CIB, CAB, CMB) are MOS specific and have additional criteria. The CIB is for 11 and 18 series. The CMB is for medics assigned to combat arms units in a combat engagement, meaning the CIB or CAB was awarded.... The CAB for everyone else.
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LTC Jason Mackay
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Edited 8 y ago
Two different requirements. They should have CSIB if they have a CAB. Someone wearing a CAB without a CSIB or SSIFWTS is suspect but not wrong. Wearing a combat patch and wearing the CAB are optional unless directed by the commander for a ceremonial/unit event.
CAB = Soldiers who personally engaged, or are engaged by the enemy.
CSIB = deployed in the hostile fire area as designated by the SEC Army or higher.
Some people just don't like wearing extra insignia. Others have a philosophical reasons too numerous to list.
Regulations: AR 600-22-8 para 8-8 and AR 670-1 para 21-17.

AR 600-8-22 8–8. Combat Action Badge
a. On 2 May 2005, the Chief of Staff, Army, approved the creation of the Combat Action Badge (CAB) to provide special recognition to Soldiers who personally engaged, or are engaged by the enemy.
b. The requirements for award of the CAB are Branch and MOS immaterial. Assignment to a Combat Arms unit or a unit organized to conduct close or offensive combat operations, or performing offensive combat operations is not required to qualify for the CAB. However, it is not intended to award all Soldiers who serve in a combat zone or imminent danger area.
c. Specific eligibility requirements.
(1) May be awarded to any Soldier.
(2) Soldier must be performing assigned duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized.
(3) Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing
satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.
(4) Soldier must be assigned or attached to a unit that would qualify the Soldier for the CIB/CMB. For example, an 11B assigned to Corps staff is eligible for award of the CAB. However, an 11B assigned to an infantry battalion is not eligible for award of the CAB.
d. In addition to Army Soldiers, the CAB may also be awarded to members of other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign military personnel assigned to a U.S. Army unit, provided they meet the above criteria (for example, KATUSA’s in the 2d Infantry Division).
e. Award of the CAB is authorized from 18 September 2001 to a date to be determined. Award for qualifying service in any previous conflict is not authorized.

AR 670-1 21–17. Shoulder sleeve insignia–former wartime service
a. General. Authorization to wear a SSI indicating FWTS applies only to Soldiers who are/were assigned to U.S. Army units that meet the following criteria in subparagraph (1) below:
(1) Required criteria—
(a) The Secretary of the Army or higher must declare the theater or area of operation as a hostile environment to which the unit is assigned or Congress must pass a Declaration of War.
(b) The units must have actively participated in or supported ground combat operations against hostile forces in which they were exposed to the threat of enemy action or fire, either directly or indirectly.
(c) The military operation normally must have lasted for a period of 30 days or longer. An exception may be made when U.S. Army forces are engaged with a hostile force for a shorter period of time, when they meet all other criteria, and a recommendation from the general or flag officer in command is forwarded to the Chief of Staff, Army.
(d) The Chief of Staff, Army must approve the authorization for wearing the SSI for FWTS. Note: Units are not authorized to modify their SSI or SSI–FWTS without prior approval from the DCS, G-1. A mirror image SSI-FWTS is considered a modification. In addition, TIOH must approve the design of any modification and authorize its manufac- turing in accordance with paragraph 2–3.
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1SG Armor Senior Sergeant
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>1 y
Sir your response was the most informative and in my opinion, the proper way to answer the soldier's question. As I told my soldiers whenever they had a question similar to the one asked, my response "What does the reg say? and when you have found the answer then we will discuss it". Wish more leaders wouldn't respond with the opinionated responses.
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SPC Infantryman
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Edited 8 y ago
Are you related to retired Gen. Colin Powell?
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Jabari Powell
Jabari Powell
8 y
Haha I wish !
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SSG John Jensen
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Jump Wings in '81. in '84 awarded EFMB, in '04 CAB as a truck driver in HETs in gigantic convoy hit by IED and ambush outside Karbala. Rec'd CAB a year after getting home, emailed Dad about the award, later conversation said Dad's CO and 1SG had CIBs from France, did he ever know anybody with 3 badges on their duty uniform, he answered no. I responded "you do now" he was always MR Negative my whole life. It changed at that point.
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LTC William Gilmore
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What is a Combat Identification Badge?
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SFC David Xanten
SFC David Xanten
8 y
Sir, I can't believe that after more then 20 years in the Army you don't know what CIB stands for.
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SSG Operations Sergeant
SSG (Join to see)
8 y
SFC, I can't believe you don't know what CIB stands for. It's Combat Infantry badge.
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LTC William Gilmore
LTC William Gilmore
8 y
SFC David Xanten - You can't recognize sarcasm?
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SFC David Xanten
SFC David Xanten
8 y
You're right about that. I am and always have been a black and white kind of person.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
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Edited 8 y ago
I have an SSI-FWTS (otherwise known as the combat patch), but I do not have a CAB. There are LOTS of Soldiers that have something on their right sleeve, but are a flatliner when it comes to their chest.
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SPC Infantryman
SPC (Join to see)
8 y
don't worry SSG Livingston, soon you will have the opportunity to wear a Expert Action Badge! If I were still in I sign up for the pilot program. Then I would wear it around just to see all the angry faces.
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MSG Intermediate Care Technician
MSG (Join to see)
8 y
SPC (Join to see) - I highly doubt I will be granted the opportunity to even test for the EAB. Being a Reservist, and a Medical Reservist at that, we never are given the opportunity to test for badges. The base I'm on houses the HQ of my Medical Division....and I have yet to see ANYTHING set up for the EFMB.
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MSG Mechanic 2nd
MSG (Join to see)
8 y
MSG (Join to see) - that's on your unit and you, I have been to the EFMB twice as a reservist, it is tough and you better be prepped up, I made 3/4 of the way when I got knocked out both times, and was one of the oldest, the course is published, you have to do the work and find it, put in for request for orders, even if it takes you to another world, don't wait for your division to do it there are plenty of others out there that are doing it
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SPC Donn Sinclair
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I've been out a long time, so humor me here. Just exactly what is an Army Combat Identification Badge?
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MSG John Duchesneau
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The correct name of the "Combat Patch" is "Shoulder Sleeve Insignia Former Wartime Service". The SSIFWS is awarded for "in theater" service but not necessarily for being in combat. The common name "Combat Patch" implies combat service is a prerequisite but it is not.
Anyone who received the CIB, CMB or CAB is also qualified to wear the SSIFWS.
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MAJ Ron Peery
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What do you mean by combat identification badge? A CIB is a Combat Infantryman Badge, and is only awarded to an infantryman who has been engaged in combat with the enemy. A CAB, Combat Action Badge, is authorized for non-infantry personnel who have been engaged in combat with the enemy. You can have both, theoretically, if you deploy once as infantry and once as non-infantry, and are engaged with the enemy in both deployments. But the CIB will always take precedence.
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CPT Robert Holden
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Don’t know what goes hand in hand . The only combat badge im aware of is the CIB. I happened to earn mine despite never being infantry . Happened to be a scout platoon leader leading an infantry diffusion in one of my first commands
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
>1 y
Were you in an infantry unit and on orders as such i.e. is scout platoon ldr an infantry slot and were you on orders and detailed for the slot?
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