Posted on Jul 30, 2016
Does the name of our opponent in Operation Inherent Resolve matter?
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What is the name of whom we are fighting? Depending on what article you read or who is speaking you hear ISIL, ISIS or Daesh. Seems like by all this time we would have a common name for this group of terrorists.
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 8
We have been engaging in covert warfare with disciples of Wahhabi Muslim doctrine since before 9/11/2001 and overt warfare with them since - in operations in Syria and Iraq we are fighting against al-Nusra Front, Al Qaeda, and ISIS [or their du jour name] and to some degree Iranian "militias" Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
The enemy has been changing its names since the 1960s when the various and sundry Palestinian terror groups renamed themselves as they mastered the news cycles: Al-Quds Brigades, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and subgroups or offshoots: Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP), Abu Nidal organization (ANO), also known as Fatah - the Revolutionary Council (FRC), Ahmed Abu Reish Brigade. Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and Black September.
The name of the enemy as a focus makes sense in force-on-force conflicts. It doesn't make sense in warfare against non-state actors [even those with grand caliphate aspirations).
Thanks for mentioning me SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) CW5 Charlie Poulton CSM Charles Hayden SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SGT John " Mac " McConnell SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT Forrest Stewart SGT Robert Hawks SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright
The enemy has been changing its names since the 1960s when the various and sundry Palestinian terror groups renamed themselves as they mastered the news cycles: Al-Quds Brigades, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and subgroups or offshoots: Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP), Abu Nidal organization (ANO), also known as Fatah - the Revolutionary Council (FRC), Ahmed Abu Reish Brigade. Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and Black September.
The name of the enemy as a focus makes sense in force-on-force conflicts. It doesn't make sense in warfare against non-state actors [even those with grand caliphate aspirations).
Thanks for mentioning me SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) CW5 Charlie Poulton CSM Charles Hayden SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SGT John " Mac " McConnell SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT Forrest Stewart SGT Robert Hawks SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
You mention lots of anti Israeli groups, not to say that ISIS, or whatever, isn't anti Israel. However this group seems to be focused on more than downfall of Israel
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LTC Stephen F.
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen - I was putting it in perspective. Those multiple anti-Israel groups were essentially PLO or off-shoots such as Fattah which had many offshoots. the same people renamed themselves.
ISIS, ISIL, Daesh are different names for the same group. That is the connection. I began studying terrorists when I was a cadet at West Point in the 1970s and have been an avid student of History and international affairs since then.
One of my old friends and classmates is Commander of CENTCOM and another classmate commands SOCOM. I do my best to never discuss information I was debriefed on; but< I try to discuss principle of terror and international affairs from open source info.
ISIS, ISIL, Daesh are different names for the same group. That is the connection. I began studying terrorists when I was a cadet at West Point in the 1970s and have been an avid student of History and international affairs since then.
One of my old friends and classmates is Commander of CENTCOM and another classmate commands SOCOM. I do my best to never discuss information I was debriefed on; but< I try to discuss principle of terror and international affairs from open source info.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen great question, it keeps changing year after year it seems. You get less medals for more work now! You used to get the GWOT medals! It's all the same IMHO!
LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C.
LTC Stephen F. LTC Stephen C.
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What's in a name? Apparently for some, a lot. It seems that references to "Levant" legitimize the claim of Islamists to all of the territories where Muslims have ever held claim. Our President seems to put great stock in this. "ISIS" has given rise to the disrespectful use of "WasWas". I suspect this annoys Islamists. Ultimately, our confusion over naming our enemy is symbolic of the confusion of our leaders in confronting them. Thus, it appears that S.I. Hayakawa was wrong in his assertion that "...there is no magic in words."
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen, they call themselves the Islamic State and strongly dislike daesh, which is general used as a pejorative in the region. The problem with calling them the Islamic State is that it accepts that they are actually a Nation-State with the rights of one. This is part of why there is so much confusion. Another problem is what region they claim, the Lavant is a larger area than Iraq or Syria and they'd like to control all if that as well.
Daesh is basically am Arabic way of pronouncing the acronym IS, but has been hijacked by their enemies as a pejorative so they don't use it anymore, is the ISIL leadership ever really did.
LTC Brian Steed is somewhat of an expert in this field and had has written a few books that can explain the background I the region pretty well although I don't think he has released a book specifically on ISIL yet.
I hope my rambling diatribe helped. Long story short, in this case it legally matters what we call them as a Nation because of the international legal implications.
Daesh is basically am Arabic way of pronouncing the acronym IS, but has been hijacked by their enemies as a pejorative so they don't use it anymore, is the ISIL leadership ever really did.
LTC Brian Steed is somewhat of an expert in this field and had has written a few books that can explain the background I the region pretty well although I don't think he has released a book specifically on ISIL yet.
I hope my rambling diatribe helped. Long story short, in this case it legally matters what we call them as a Nation because of the international legal implications.
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SSG (Join to see)
The fact that they threaten anyone who calls them Daesh is enough for me to support calling them Daesh. I agree they are not a state, and that they are not likely to ever become a state.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Yes it helped, but like the whole operation, very confusing. Should remember from my CENTCOM in brief that nothing in this AOR is simple
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It's a good question, Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen, but General James Mattis, USMC retired, didn't worry about names. He articulated his approach in these two quotes:
“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill EVERYBODY you meet.”
“Find THE ENEMY that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact.” LTC Stephen F. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill EVERYBODY you meet.”
“Find THE ENEMY that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact.” LTC Stephen F. SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Gen Mattis reminds me of Gen Christ who I served under at HQUSCENTCOM. Get the job done. Worry about PC later!
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PO2 Nick Burke
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen - So how would he keep his job under the current Administration?
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LTC Stephen C.
PO2 Nick Burke, if you're asking about General James Mattis, he retired on May 22, 2013, after 44 years of service. However, it was Obama who appointed him as the 11th commander of United States Central Command on August 11, 2010. The answer to your question is that he was appointed CENTCOM commander by the current administration, and served there until his retirement. When Obama was first inaugurated on January 20, 2009, James Mattis was already general (O-10), so he served at that grade until his retirement, all under the current administration. Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Mattis and Christ both Marines, guess that explains their disdain for the PC faction.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Now that works for me, the one that offends them the most. Forget PC stuff!
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You would think not but in Information Warfare sometimes those Little Nuances really do matter. ISIL or ISIS gives them some Credence and is in some small way recognizing them as a "Caliphate" State or an Independent Country it gives them a great deal of Undue Recognition. Daesh is their Older Name and it Implies a Boot Stepping On People, Much like the Propaganda the US had against the Nazis with a Swastika Emblazoned Boot stepping on Europe. They are trying to Sell themselves as a Little Softer in Tone to those of similar religious backgrounds (Hard to Believe I know) Using their Original Name so Offends them now that they have issued their Own Fattwah calling for the Execution of anyone using the Name Daesh for them. Guess what I call them, You Go It DAESH!
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Capt Tom Brown
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel I also strongly favor calling them anything they hate to be called, esp Daesh, which I see more and more of in reports, esp from overseas. As you have said we should not give them the slightest recognition or suggestion of legitimacy, by calling them what they want to be called, they have no legitimacy whatsoever. Daesh are worse than Nazis at their worst, and would exceed even the atrocities committed by the Nazis if they were large enough to do so either now or anytime in the future.
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