Posted on Sep 24, 2020
My chain of command just announced that they're going to inspect on and off-post housing. What are they allow to inspect?
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So my question is can they order me open up my kid's room if my son and daughter are in their rooms, or if my dogs are in one of the rooms behind a closed door because of not being friendly to strangers can they order me to open. I apologize for such a naive question, I just have never experienced this before. Is there anything I can reference about off post house inspection by the chain of command.
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 197
Your chain of command isn’t allowed to enter your off post residence without your invitation. JBLM is conducting these inspections as well, but they are courtesy inspections, not mandatory. The intent is to make sure our Soldiers are being taken care of and not living in decrepit conditions because of bad landlords. You are not required to give entrance to them, and if you do you are not required to let them go anywhere you don’t want them to go. The police can’t even enter your house without your approval and they have legal authority. Your chain of command has no authority over your family or your home.
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SSG Deron Santiny
COL Jim Ainslie - I think your comment is spot on Sir. In my opinion, you and your PSG showed excellent Leadership skills that more likely than not encouraged that soldier to want to be an effective leader. Apparently you were not there for a "Surprise" inspection where the soldier had to be worried about being chastised or worse by what you saw. There is a difference in being an effective leader and being an "Ass" which, you were obviously an effective leader and I am sure your soldiers appreciated you and your PSG for it. You obviously made it to the rank of Colonel for a reason, you are obviously what the Army needs(ed) as a leader unlike some that I am sure we can both say we have seen throughout our careers.
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1SG Mike Robinson
COL Ainslie, I agree with you. When I was a 1SG, my commander and I required health and welfare checks by out PSG and LT's on our solders living off post. I agree, it's up to the solider if they let you in. Soldier's also need to know the COC is their to help if they need it.
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SP6 Richard Kellar
Given your current military woke protocol it shows wisdom denying. However you may be scrutinized unfairly unless there are signs you are woke. Be careful like your on point. I would make a large wager regarding their ultimate interest.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SFC (Verify To See).....
Living In a Predominantly USAF Neighborhood, The Inspections Don't Amount To Much More Than A General Inspection Of Your Residence Conditions, Your Shrubbery And Lawns Appearance. Simply Insuring Everything's Is Up To Code & Not A Hazard To Anyone's Health.
As You Stated Though...:
"command isn’t allowed to enter your off post residence without your invitation"
SURE, Go Ahead And Refuse Them Entry To Make An Inspection. BRILLIANT Move.
I'm Certain They'll Understand. LOL..... Uh NOPE!
Living In a Predominantly USAF Neighborhood, The Inspections Don't Amount To Much More Than A General Inspection Of Your Residence Conditions, Your Shrubbery And Lawns Appearance. Simply Insuring Everything's Is Up To Code & Not A Hazard To Anyone's Health.
As You Stated Though...:
"command isn’t allowed to enter your off post residence without your invitation"
SURE, Go Ahead And Refuse Them Entry To Make An Inspection. BRILLIANT Move.
I'm Certain They'll Understand. LOL..... Uh NOPE!
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Off post housing is not under the jurisdiction of the military, last I knew anyway. I do not believe that the Army has legal capabilities of inspecting off post housing. On post....some bad stuff had to have happened for on post housing getting inspected as I have never heard of that before. I recommend you speak with JAG on this.
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SSG Darrell Peters
PO3 Pamala McBrayer - The word is Probable Cause and the standard for Probable cause is high. The Military Police can only enter your property if they have Probable cause that a crime is in progress or they have a warrant. Meare suspicion is not enough to gain entry.
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MSgt Gilbert Jones
PO3 Pamala McBrayer - As a First Sgt, I had been called out to a house off base by the city police when there was a problem. Normally when I arrived the police would normally turn things over to me - that is as long as no one was hurt, threatened, or a weapon involved. I did get called out once and the airman had a rifle, and a container of bullets. The police officers told me they were leaving, I asked them did they think my diamonds made me bullet proof, they just smiled. My troops thought First Sgt's were paid combat pay.
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MSgt Rafael Cortes
MSgt Gilbert Jones - hell from dirty things First Sgt have to deal with they should get it. I'd rather go into combat than deal with those issues.
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I found this one a little amusing. Not amused that you asked the question. More at the thought of my chain of command assuming they could inspect my home. Would have been amusing enough on post. But we owned the home we lived in off post.
I would have actually kind of enjoy watching this one. Show up at my house and I would feel inclined to just stand back and watch. My wife makes me look nice at times. She knew she wasn’t in control of a whole lot when we went back in. It would be so much fun to watch someone step into the one place she felt she still had some control, and act like they are in charge.
I would have actually kind of enjoy watching this one. Show up at my house and I would feel inclined to just stand back and watch. My wife makes me look nice at times. She knew she wasn’t in control of a whole lot when we went back in. It would be so much fun to watch someone step into the one place she felt she still had some control, and act like they are in charge.
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MSgt Brian Williams
CINCHOUSE. I wish someone would have tried. My wife is from the Bronx so good luck with that.
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Capt Robert Vincelette
I never encountered anyone who would disrespect the privacy of off base residence when I served a long time ago. But if there were an abusive landlord we would get help for the victim through the legal services available to service personnel to get a landlord into trouble with the proper civilian authorities and support our people.
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Capt Robert Vincelette
Unlike in the military, I quit my last job teaching as a math professor because I had a supervisor/department chair demanding I do personnel errands for him as a condition for contract renewal. He wanted me to get rid of my house because he considered its futuristic architectural style unbecoming of the professional image of a college professor. I miss how if he were in the military he would get court marshaled.
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Capt Mark Miller
Capt Robert Vincelette - My experience was similar. Overseas in Okinawa. we were as Security Police called for Off Base Incidents at times, often handling things unless the Japanese Police showed up. Responded to a medical emergency out of the Navy Side Gate and beat the Medics and Japanese officials to the location. I tired as a young Captain to give an active-duty female CPR but soon realized although she felt warm, she had been dead for a while. Turnes out the mink blanket kept the body heat in. Husband was a dirtbag who had been kicked out of the USAF, they had smoked some dope and smacked her around which when she went to sleep, she never woke up. Japanese authorities did not try to prosecute the now 'civilian' just deported him with his dead wife's Military Life Insurance. I hope Karma caught up with that a-hole.
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The phrase "Get a warrant" comes to mind. Because these quarters more often than not are occupied by civilians (even on base), this would be a violation of search and seizure protections guaranteed under the 4th Amendment.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
It's FEDERAL Government Property, State Laws Have No Authority
Only Subject To Our UCMJ, MILITARY Laws
Only Subject To Our UCMJ, MILITARY Laws
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
...............It's FEDERAL Government Property, State Laws Have No Authority
Only Subject To Our UCMJ, MILITARY Laws, But Cooperation Between The Two Is Not Unusual......
Only Subject To Our UCMJ, MILITARY Laws, But Cooperation Between The Two Is Not Unusual......
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I'm sorry, but I have never heard of off-post housing being subject to inspection.
What I am about to say is prefaced by the fact that this question came from a SNCO, not some 18 month SPC looking for a way to circumvent his CoC.....
Unless you provide permission, no one in your CoC has the authority to enter your private domicile. I'm sure a lawyer will tell you the same. Your spouse and children are not subject to military law. They certainly have a right to privacy.
I must ask; did something happen in your command that spurred such a drastic action? I was in a unit that had a huge drug bust back in the early 90s and because of it a bunch of people who didn't do anything wrong got their rights shit on. Is that the case here?
Bottom line, you are going to have to choose whether or not you allow this to happen. Much like a vampire, they need permission to enter. Once they have it, your life and the life of your family is open to all kinds of scrutiny. Choose wisely.
What I am about to say is prefaced by the fact that this question came from a SNCO, not some 18 month SPC looking for a way to circumvent his CoC.....
Unless you provide permission, no one in your CoC has the authority to enter your private domicile. I'm sure a lawyer will tell you the same. Your spouse and children are not subject to military law. They certainly have a right to privacy.
I must ask; did something happen in your command that spurred such a drastic action? I was in a unit that had a huge drug bust back in the early 90s and because of it a bunch of people who didn't do anything wrong got their rights shit on. Is that the case here?
Bottom line, you are going to have to choose whether or not you allow this to happen. Much like a vampire, they need permission to enter. Once they have it, your life and the life of your family is open to all kinds of scrutiny. Choose wisely.
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SFC (Join to see)
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney perhaps laws have changed in the last 2/3 of a century?
Maybe not....might have been super illegal then, too
Maybe not....might have been super illegal then, too
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SSG (Join to see)
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney They absolutely can not enter off post housing. They can ask to come in but you, your spouse, or whoever else lives with you can tell them they can't enter.
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SSgt (Join to see)
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney - Our unit was never tasked inspected except for our unit commander and he seldom did.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SFC (Join to see) - ,,,
I'd Think Many Things & Rules Have Changed Over The Past 60 Years Since I Was In The USAF, No Doubt; But It Seems As Though The Commands Have Lost/Are Losing, Command Of Their Organizations. The Troops Have So Many "Rights", How Does Command Get Anything Accomplished.?
HOLY CHIT !!.....During My Days, Unless We Were Sure The Order Was Illegal & Detrimental, We Did As We Were Told....
When In a Combat Situation, There's No Time To Hold A Meeting & Vote On The Situational Decisions...
I'd Think Many Things & Rules Have Changed Over The Past 60 Years Since I Was In The USAF, No Doubt; But It Seems As Though The Commands Have Lost/Are Losing, Command Of Their Organizations. The Troops Have So Many "Rights", How Does Command Get Anything Accomplished.?
HOLY CHIT !!.....During My Days, Unless We Were Sure The Order Was Illegal & Detrimental, We Did As We Were Told....
When In a Combat Situation, There's No Time To Hold A Meeting & Vote On The Situational Decisions...
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As a former commander, I never considered entering off-post housing as an option. I may have authority over the soldier but not his/her family. Since the housing is off-post, it falls under civilian jurisdiction. If I have reason to believe (through police reports and other reports) that the living conditions are unhealthy or unsafe, then I engage civilian authorities in the matter and/or have the soldier temporarily live in the barracks until the situation is resolved. I have the authority to inspect buildings occupied by my soldiers and no more.
But I know this because I started my career as an enlisted soldier and this was taught at the NCO Academy. NCOs are responsible for their troopers. As much as I wanted to ensure their health and welfare, my authority was limited, as it was when I became an officer. If my 1SG or CSM came to me with concerns about the living situation of a soldier, who lives off-post, I directed that NCOs handle this with the soldier not with an order to visit off-post housing. The PSG or Squad Leader should be aware of how the soldier is getting along at home. If they have concerns, then we talk to the soldier and determine the problem. But there is no legal or practical reason for me to go to off-post housing looking for problems.
Finally, unless someone with legal authority (warrant) is seeking to enter your house, you never give permission. If they end up at your front door, demanding entrance, you step outside and shut the door behind you. Your duty is to the Constitution and as such, knowing your rights is just as important as defending them. Hopefully, the Army and the country hasn't changed so much that this has been lost.
But I know this because I started my career as an enlisted soldier and this was taught at the NCO Academy. NCOs are responsible for their troopers. As much as I wanted to ensure their health and welfare, my authority was limited, as it was when I became an officer. If my 1SG or CSM came to me with concerns about the living situation of a soldier, who lives off-post, I directed that NCOs handle this with the soldier not with an order to visit off-post housing. The PSG or Squad Leader should be aware of how the soldier is getting along at home. If they have concerns, then we talk to the soldier and determine the problem. But there is no legal or practical reason for me to go to off-post housing looking for problems.
Finally, unless someone with legal authority (warrant) is seeking to enter your house, you never give permission. If they end up at your front door, demanding entrance, you step outside and shut the door behind you. Your duty is to the Constitution and as such, knowing your rights is just as important as defending them. Hopefully, the Army and the country hasn't changed so much that this has been lost.
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Sherra Scott
"Your duty is to the Constitution and as such, knowing your rights is just as important as defending them." <- This person gets it.
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No. You are no required to allow a member of your chain of command to enter your off-post residence. Although I do recall making these visits to my junior enlisted Soldiers homes when I was a 2LT stationed in Germany 30+ years ago. Having just graduated from college I thought it was a waste of my time and a violation of the Soldier's privacy until I saw some of the conditions a few of them were living with their families. The good news is we were able to get a few emergency housing and landlords to make necessary repairs. So don't necessarily look at it as a negative. Many of your senior NCOs have all kinds of stuff in their garages and storage units that they might donate if they only knew you needed it.
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SSG (Join to see)
One of your responsibilities as a leader is to look out for your people's welfare. Their home life has a huge effect on their performance and their family's well being. I was taught how to do everything in the military, from brushing my teeth, to lacing my boots, to taking a shower. We expect our people to know how to manage a spouse, kids, and house on their own.
Like the COL, I've seen some horror stories, and I've found it is vital to get in and see your subordinates homes from time to time. There's a non-creepy friendly way of doing this, and then there's the Army way, where they call it an inspection.
What I would do is tell them that I was bringing a meal by for them, and let them know ahead of time. This worked particularly well when they were sick. That would, at the very least, let me get a peek in their front door, and usually got me invited in. It took care of my people, built relationships with them, and hopefully made their spouse hate the military just a little less.
Like the COL, I've seen some horror stories, and I've found it is vital to get in and see your subordinates homes from time to time. There's a non-creepy friendly way of doing this, and then there's the Army way, where they call it an inspection.
What I would do is tell them that I was bringing a meal by for them, and let them know ahead of time. This worked particularly well when they were sick. That would, at the very least, let me get a peek in their front door, and usually got me invited in. It took care of my people, built relationships with them, and hopefully made their spouse hate the military just a little less.
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LTJG Kevin Matthews
SSG, you and the COL have the right mindset here. "Inspection" has a negative connotation to it. More often than not it's to find what's "wrong" and "gig" someone for it. A concerned chain of command will want to know their people are living in decent and adequate housing. They will want to know there's hot water and electricity. They will want to know the kiddos are able to sleep at night without cockroaches crawling all over them. Some folks come from desperate situations and figure they'll just "make do" because it's better than what they left back on the block. Some people get into bad situations and their pride keeps them from asking for help. A quick 5-10 minute visit in a non-confrontational way will let the servicemember know the chain cares about their well-being. If such a visit raises hackles, there are deeper problems within the chain that need to be addressed.
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No, they do not have jurisdiction to demand entry to your off base residence. Even CID, NCIS, or AFOSI would need either a warrant or exigent circumstances to enter your off post residence without your consent
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Negative off base they can not. On base they have to have permission from your spouse. Unless there is an immediate threat or health and wellness going on for the kids or adults living in the house.
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On base they may have the authority to inspect your living quarters since by being on a military base you authorize search any time. Off base housing not owned by the government, I think not! Unless they secure a search warrant I seriously doubt they have the authority to enter your place of residence unless you say they can. You might want to go talk to a legal beagle (military lawyer so you don't have to pay for it) and let them answer the question, legally. I think someone is overstepping their boundaries here.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
Depends if it DoD contracted housing. If it is they don't need a warrant because of the DoD. They would have to go through civil and Military to secure a warrant. Will be pretty easy consider the 2 police agencies work close together. Now with that being said if it isn't contracted they can pitch a fit if they want and give you all kinds of hell but they do not have the authority to search/inspect a private residence off post. Now then again if the property is owned by the Post then that is a horse of a different color.
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CW2 (Join to see)
All on post housing is privately contracted, you sign a lease on who is able to enter your dwelling with out permission. On post or off post a warrant is needed. Legal can't authorize entry to a on post housing, neither can anyone in your chain of command.
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COL (Join to see)
SGT Bryon Sergent - 'Securing a warrant' requires an affidavit claiming criminal activity or potential for harm (to self or others). A commander can't just request one and get it.
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I was stationed at Marine Barracks Washington DC from 2001-2003. This was before the current annex was built and many Marines were allowed to live out in town after their first year at the Barracks. Some of the Platoons were tasked with doing courtesy visits of those who just recently moved out. It was to ensure that they had adequate conditions and weren't sleeping on the floor with a poncho liner. It was specifically for the unmarried guys who were just forced to move due to limited space. My platoon didn't do this but a roommate of mine was and our place was checked out. Our circumstances were a little different than what you are describing. Our scenario was directly related to guys drawing BAH for being in DC and living in their cars to pocket the money or living in a studio apartment with no furniture to save money. It wasn't a power trip but I have seen Commands try the heavy handed stuff in the past and it go poorly.
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SSG Paul Headlee
SSgt Christophe Murphy Correct implementation will be key. I can just see a bunch of untrained yahoos saying improper things, doing improper things... Its got the potential for serious liability.
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COL (Join to see)
SSG Paul Headlee - When I arrived in Germany in 1989, there were no quarters available. Since my unit was at gunnery, they directed that I store my gear in my office (90 sqft) and join the unit. When I returned, they still had no quarters and a 3 month waiting list. So, I lived in my office, slept at or on my Army grey steel desk, showered at the gym and slowly went nuts. After 4 months, I found housing, my family arrived and I moved off base. But the damage was done. I had no confidence in my chain of command on personnel matters and trusted them less when it came to leadership. This was my first and last time experiencing what living in a cell was like.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Woe brother what a terrible trial. I understand your situation. T keep me and my cat safe I used Walmart Parking lots. I would park in garages with most managers ok. Oh and my cat was always safe from heat and cold.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Daytime I hung out at DD. I got food and so foth. It is hard and it was, Complaining is Counter-intuitive. Duke Hospital as well.
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OK. This happened to me in Germany in the early 80's. Any self respecting commander would do what mine did at the time. He came to my door, glanced inside and left. It was that simple. He knew he was intruding but was required by higher command to do so. It was required at that time (only once) because some soldiers were living in very poor conditions due to bad landlords. It was winter, and if memory serves, either a soldier or family member got frostbite in their home because the landlord kept turning off the heat. The command wanted to ensure the health and safety of all soldiers in what we called "living on the economy ". I personally had no problem with it since I knew my place was well above any standard post housing at the time. I was surprised he didn't want to cone in. We moved to that apartment because of a bad landlord. He controlled the heat, but not so bad as to get frostbite. He would come in the apartment any time he felt like it. He also turned the chimes on our grandmother clock off and we thought it was broken. (Luckily the repairman didn't charge us to move the lever back! Lol) He was also strongly suggesting we get stuff from the commissary for him. He had shelves of American food from previous renters. We finally complained and were authorized to move closer to post on the government dime.
Short story long, if they are wanting to do this, there probably has been an incident, especially since its winter, to make the command want to ensure others are not in the same boat. I am hopeful they arent there to do a full blown inspection. That is a line not to be crossed. But command has the responsibility to ensure the health and safety of ALL soldiers in their command, no matter where they live. But like a previous poster stated, check with JAG. Also, if you have concerns about how your landlord is treating you, the visit is a perfect chance to air your concerns. A letter from the Army goes a long way to get bad landlords to behave correctly.
Short story long, if they are wanting to do this, there probably has been an incident, especially since its winter, to make the command want to ensure others are not in the same boat. I am hopeful they arent there to do a full blown inspection. That is a line not to be crossed. But command has the responsibility to ensure the health and safety of ALL soldiers in their command, no matter where they live. But like a previous poster stated, check with JAG. Also, if you have concerns about how your landlord is treating you, the visit is a perfect chance to air your concerns. A letter from the Army goes a long way to get bad landlords to behave correctly.
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This is likely related to health and welfare concerns based on this protracted nationa emergency. They are looking at quarters to ensure you are all healthy and living a healthy life. You can refuse entry, they do have other recourse to check on your health and welfare. If you live in a clean and healthy environment you should not be averse to a quick walk through and hello. I have had this happen to me and done this in many units based on circumstances to individuals or groups. Sometimes people are not even aware that they live in unhealthy conditions based on how they were raised. These visits can be eye openers for all involved. Again, it is for your health and welfare. I would add that whomever you allow should at the very least be someone you and your spouse are comfortable with. As for kids and dogs, they can be moved to other areas? Just one mans opinion.
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SPC Rich Jackson
SPC Rich Jackson - I know it's probably tacky to self reply, but i ended up back on this thread to read new comments.
I just wanted to add that while the CSM was at my apartment, I don't think he was more than an arms length away from the front door at any given point in time. Of course, my appt wasn't really all that big, but this thread made me realize how comical it really was.
But hey, he seemed happy with what he saw, I got some CSM face time about some things going on in the company and I ended up with a coin that trumped just about every coin I saw while in country. lol
I just wanted to add that while the CSM was at my apartment, I don't think he was more than an arms length away from the front door at any given point in time. Of course, my appt wasn't really all that big, but this thread made me realize how comical it really was.
But hey, he seemed happy with what he saw, I got some CSM face time about some things going on in the company and I ended up with a coin that trumped just about every coin I saw while in country. lol
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
Glad to hear the experience played out well. As for the CSMs positioning, he can see and smell all he needs once in the door. He obviously felt no need to go further. SPC Rich Jackson
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CDR Joel Paine
“If you’ve got nothing to hide there should be reason for you to refuse a search of your stuff.”
That’s essentially what you just said, CSM, and it’s bad advice.
Even in the military, we have rights and they shouldn’t be surrendered to the government but rather the government must provide a legal reason to supersede your rights.
In this case, there appears to be a reason, but it’s not a legally enforceable one, thus the member’s right to decline the offer.
That’s essentially what you just said, CSM, and it’s bad advice.
Even in the military, we have rights and they shouldn’t be surrendered to the government but rather the government must provide a legal reason to supersede your rights.
In this case, there appears to be a reason, but it’s not a legally enforceable one, thus the member’s right to decline the offer.
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
You are most certainly welcome to your opinion Sir. I can site many examples where home inspections saved lives, marriages and careers. I am pretty sure I said he could refuse. I respect your opinion. CDR Joel Paine
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I would do 2 things, I would ask to see the regs that allow them to do this, I would also attempt to find those regs. If it just is a command policy I would talk to an individual that works in JAG and get their advice.
This sounds really shady to me. I work at the brigade level and I hate to see people ask for regs but its effective. They might give you the regular it's in, then you ctrl-F it.
This sounds really shady to me. I work at the brigade level and I hate to see people ask for regs but its effective. They might give you the regular it's in, then you ctrl-F it.
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
Yeah this already happened I did research the right I was just wondering if anybody's ever experienced this. So apparently because a 3rd Corps they're trying to persuade us to do this to call our subordinates parents, friends, and next to kin. Also a leaders book that has some content that are a bit personal and my CSM's answer was well they joined the Army when my former platoon sergeant told him that some soldiers didn't want us to call they family.
Apparently all this because of what's going on with all the deaths in fort Hood/3rd Corps.
Apparently all this because of what's going on with all the deaths in fort Hood/3rd Corps.
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Brad Miller
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I grew up in a 3rd World military dictatorship. I see this desperate search for "white supremacy extremists", hear that the WH intends to hire civilians to monitor social media, then this inspection comes up ... my Sorry sense is going off at about 200 decibels.
You guys are sworn to protect the Constitution, doesn't mean you aren't still protected by it.
You guys are sworn to protect the Constitution, doesn't mean you aren't still protected by it.
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COL (Join to see)
SSG Dennis Mendoza - As an NCO, I kept a leader book with all of my trooper's info (DOB, Blood type, Spouse's info, Children's info, address, etc.) I would call the trooper for alerts and phone tree checks but never the spouse or family. I will ensure the trooper had personal time for birthdays and if I remembered, I sent a card. I also met with the trooper once a week to discuss family, friends, social life, etc. to ensure there wasn't something up. The knee jerk reaction related to suicide only causes more stress. The deaths are most likely tied to the social changes that are impacting the military. In my day, there were only 2 genders and I didn't care who you were sleeping with. All that mattered was that you could perform your soldiers skills and MOS skills while staying out of trouble.
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My guess is: If you live on base in Govt. Housing they can inspect because the totality (house and land property) of the property belongs to the Govt., if you live off base but still in Govt. Housing they can inspect, and if you live off base in private housing that is not "leased" by the Govt. they CANNOT inspect.
Keep in mind that "inspect" means to determine that their property is functioning as it should be and becoming a safety hazard, and not a "white glove" inspection because the Admiral or General is coming.
I lived off base in Govt. Quarters in '96-'99, and Base Housing Personnel made annual walk through inspections to see if everything worked properly, nothing major was broken, etc.
Keep in mind that "inspect" means to determine that their property is functioning as it should be and becoming a safety hazard, and not a "white glove" inspection because the Admiral or General is coming.
I lived off base in Govt. Quarters in '96-'99, and Base Housing Personnel made annual walk through inspections to see if everything worked properly, nothing major was broken, etc.
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In 1970 I was living in a duplex in Killeen, Texas been out of the Army for a year. Had gas heat which I was afraid to leave on at night. Too many cases of house fires because of the gas fires. Next door in a 2 bedroom house lived a E-6 Staff Sgt. They had 3 small kids. His rent was $135.00 a month and he made aprox. $450.00 a month. The kids would come to my place sometimes for a sandwich or to get warm. They were covered with bug bites and always hungry. The inside of the house was a pig sty. They needed to be inspected and the landlord fined. GI's from Ft. Hood were screwed every time they turned around.
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The chain of command is not coming out to inspect your on/off post housing like you do to inspect the Soldiers' rooms in the barracks. They come by your home to check if you live at the residence, if you have running water and electricity at your residence and that Uncle Sam's BHA is covering your rent and utilities. Basically the chain of command wants to ensure that the BHA is more than sufficient for quality of life.
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TSgt Zachary Weaver
No, that's what the BAH questionnaire is for. They have no legal right to enter on or off post housing. Civilians live there, too, and have all the rights guaranteed by the Constitution. His CoC needs a warrant to enter without permission. It's not the barracks or a dorm room. The DoD made the decision to privatize housing, so they don't even own the homes anymore.
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In all my time on active duty I have never had my chain of command do an inspection of my on post housing. It just seems odd to inspect a families house hold unless something was suspected. It's different for Barracks inspections. I know they can do it for on post housing, not sure about off post. Because that is not run by the military.
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SSG, my recommendation is talk to JAG. JAG knows the laws and regulations, if your rights are being violated. We still have rights even though we serve and I think the 4th amendment applies. As a 1SG I made health and welfare visits but I didn't enter the home unless invited and didn't inspect like a barracks. It was is the house in good repair and do you have what you need to live. But it is about "intent" talk to JAG. That's my recommendation
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As other barracks lawyers have pointed out, no you do not have to let your command inspect your off-post housing.
What these barracks lawyers didn't mention (at least in any of the responses I read) is that your chain of command has the authority to revoke your permission to live off post if they have any reason to believe your living conditions are unsuitable.
This is the kind of question I would have expected from a private or a wise-ass SP4, not from an NCO. Clearly you either don't give a damn about the soldiers you are supposed to be responsible for, or you think that they should have to put up with standards but you should be exempt. Either way, I am not impressed.
What these barracks lawyers didn't mention (at least in any of the responses I read) is that your chain of command has the authority to revoke your permission to live off post if they have any reason to believe your living conditions are unsuitable.
This is the kind of question I would have expected from a private or a wise-ass SP4, not from an NCO. Clearly you either don't give a damn about the soldiers you are supposed to be responsible for, or you think that they should have to put up with standards but you should be exempt. Either way, I am not impressed.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
MSG Thomas Currie - No regulation or law give you commander that authority. You can not cite a regulation or law that allows a commander to search private property off base. without that regulation or law the 4th Amendment is binding on all.
Authorities that commanders just assume they have have no bearing the reality
Authorities that commanders just assume they have have no bearing the reality
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SGT (Join to see)
MSG Thomas Currie you made it to E-8? Sure glad you wasn't in my CoC or NCO Support Channel. Only idiot I see here is you thinking you, or anyone else has the right to enter my private residence off post. The 1SG is right here, which is why he is a 1SG and you just a MSG. On Post/Barracks fair game. Off post not so much and if you tried I would've had you arrested for breaking and entering. You're what's wrong with the leadership in today's military.
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SGT (Join to see)
MSG Thomas Currie Actually, I was medically retired from a lung disease I acquired in Afghanistan. But good job continuing to show just how horrible of a leader you truly are. You and others like you are why retention standards are dropping. And troops don't trust their leadership. All y'all care about is looking good for the brass, and if that means fucking over the ones you're suppose to take care of then so be it. You were probably a POG anyway.
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I bought a house that is now rented out to another soldier, actually its on its fourth tenant now on LA28 north of Fort Polk. I've periodically had CoC emailing me with questions of lease responsibilities and whatnot but in all its not really up to them, I got some heat about the lawn and this and that but its the responsibility of the tenant and has nothing to do with the Military. Lets say they want to extend their inspection to welfare right? They can see the lease, including any documents for abatement like lead and asbestos. They could get water test reports if they wanted from the municipality, thats what they CAN do. But as the soldier, your not obligated at all to share your time and space with CoC on private property anywhere in the United States, in fact this has been to court. There is no such thing as a welfare check on private property and it needs to be executed much differently to keep unit commands from getting in unnecessary grievances with their soldiers.
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To cya i suggest you go to base legal and get their official view on this inspection. As a official opinion from JAG will have more backing then rally point legal
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Just tell your CoC that your civilian spouse don't want them there. Your CoC has no authority over your spouse if he/she is a civilian. If you're staying in on-post housing, technically its the Garrison Commander's authority and jurisdiction. They are like the Mayor of the installation, so they do have authority and responsibility to upkeep it. However, when comes to off-post they have no authority.
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i’m retired military last I remember these are the rules ,anything that physically belongs to the military , they can look at within reason, anything that is physically off posts that the military has no control over, now they can’t request or someone makes a report but then The civilian authorities get involved
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I did this as a company commander at Ft Lewis from 1982 - 1984. I was able to assist my soldiers and their families to get necessary repairs; get out of leases; and even waive deposits as the landlords got to know me. My wife usually came along as did one of the NCO s and his wife. And, yes, it was at our soldier's invitation. But, it was with the expectation that I was there to help. Sometimes we even had follow on visits from JAG Admin Law.
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This falls under the 4th Amendment to the Constitution and your right to be secure within your own home. The SFC at the top of this post nailed it. You may invite your CO or 1SGT into your home, but they have no right to enter your non-government quarters without a warrent.
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I had a CSM who suggested an interesting policy. As has been stated that someone in the CoC cannot demand to inspect off-post quarters. BUT, the CoC can schedule a TA-50/II inspection. When that happens - give the off post personel the option of lugging all their TA-50/II on to post - up to the 3rd floor (designated area for off-post personnel) or if you prefer, your CoC will come to your house for the inspection - which would be a bit less informal.
I love giving people choices!
I love giving people choices!
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Wow, who up the food chain decided that just because you signed a contract and live off post that your 4th doesn't count? This sounds like a call to Army Times is in order...
Tell your 1SG to "pound sand". Then go visit JAG and ask them to clarify this to the chain of command at your post.
Tell your 1SG to "pound sand". Then go visit JAG and ask them to clarify this to the chain of command at your post.
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Tell them to go to hell. They don't have the authority. Off post housing cannot be "inspected" by the chain of command without your expressed assent.
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SPC Donald Donovan
I would consult a jag officer without delay, off post civilian housing is not within the jurisdiction of the United States military. Be prepared for some pushback by some overzealous NCO or officer in charge of this “project“.I don’t know what they’re telling you, but I know what they’re trying to feed you. Just sayin.
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Since the military has been getting negative news because of deaths at certain installations maybe this their way of showing the country they're trying to take care of their troops. However of the 22 years i spent in the Army i jever saw nor heard of anything like this happening. Thats why military move off post in the first place. To get away from it
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SSG Dennis Mendoza
You're right about that SFC but in this matter they showed up to the pff post homes and pretty much worded as thank you for inviting us in to your home. My wife was not happy but she was working and my kids didn't want to see them. Only my PLT SGT and PLT Leader came by. From what they're said was to get to know us better but to be honest they still don't know their subordinates better.
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I never heard of such thing but they can inspect only on post housing but off base housing is off limits. I never heard of such a thing!
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If you live in base housing that's off the main installation, they can in fact check your place. BUT if you are living in a privately owned location that is owned by a private entity, then they have to be invited by you. Your command has no control over non government property.
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So my wife brought up a good point, why is the chain of command coming to subordinates homes when this pandemic is going on.
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Be good question for a lawyer. I can see that they might be able to inspect quarters both on and off if you are using guvment funds (BAH) to rent the qtrs. It might be said that the Guvment is the tenant. If paying with your own funds, NO. If there are still some guvment owned houses on post then yes, they can.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
If the spouse or anyone else put even a penny into the household budget that argument would fall through
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The only time my command ever inspected my off base housing was in Philippines and it was before I moved in to make sure it was not some dive or a fake address. This was so I could collect BHA and BAQ allowance in my paycheck. By order of comnavstaphil. After that no other inspections were allowed. I would first take this issue to the command Master Sergeant then to legal follow your chain of command
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On base, yes, it is government housing but it can not be unannounced and it must be arranged with you through coordination. Off base, no, only with your permission and only if you want them in your house. You have a constitutional right to personal privacy and the government does not have the right to intrude, yet!
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Tell your commander that the only way he can enter your home is if he has a court order signed by a civilian judge and is escorted by the local sheriff's office.
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Whaaattt? This must be something just
new? Never heard of such a thing, except in civilian law.
new? Never heard of such a thing, except in civilian law.
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