Objective Obama?

TSgt Frank Shirley - TSgt Shirley -- It is simply a fact that is plain for everybody to see. There is nothing at all bigoted about my statement of fact. One simply needs to look at his and his Administration's track record of supporting causes and people on the basis of race. From supporting black criminals over the police and the rule of law, refusing to prosecute based on race, hailing lawbreakers/looters/rioters as doing good work, supporting the BLM idiots who advocate the murder of policemen, and on and on. If you would remove your head from your ass, you might just be able to see the truth.

Contrary to what you might think, just because someone makes a derogatory comment about a black person, that does not make that person a bigot. In most cases, the person yelling "bigot" and "racist" should be looking in the mirror when making those comments.

TSgt Shirley, the fact that you can't see that he has set relations backwards is startling in the least and alarming in the extreme. On every occasion that he has had an opportunity to advocate our similarities and inclusiveness, he has done the opposite, by speech or action. Stop being blind.

PFC Robert Falk - Maybe you should pop the Uncle Sam titty out of your mouth and grow the fuck up. Stop riding the PTSD train. Contribute, or check the fuck out.

SFC Charles Kauffman - Just because the VA offers you those meds, doesn't mean you have to take them. A lot of vets that have seen more shit that you are functioning just fine. You may have had issues before you grunted up.

MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht ah I gotcha. I misunderstood and that actually makes sense as well.

I agree with you, its poor journalism at best. One should never start an article, argument, or discussion with the words "indisputable fact that...". Everything can be disputed especially statistics.

I personally don't think he has been successful. I think he has done more damage to this nation with all of the PC crap, thug life promo, and everything else he has promoted to divide us. In my Opinion ( Yes I get to have one still) he is the worst president I have seen in my life time and I can't wait until he is out of office and hopefully just a bad memory.

If you look carefully at the url you will discover these charts were made by "Progressives" for Progressives. I wouldn't trust the results unless I could see the raw data and the collection methods.

1stLt Nick S - Sir, this is not putting words in your mouth: "What about Bush? If that's saying he didn't care about the military then you are wrong sir. He sincerely cared for service members and their families sir" And as you can see sir, I did ask for elaboration. I don't just "pop off my mouth" so to speak.

1stLt Nick S - dumbest thing I ever heard… obama was smoking pot in college on a free ride… .my lowly rank makes me more qualified to be commander of the military than him…. You can be critical of Bush but he served and he was a patriot… i know obama doesnt give a rats ass for the military or the country and im almost convinced that his whole mission has been to destroy our constitution and set us up for a communist switch in government.

You guys need to take this somewhere else, you're starting to sound like two kids on a playground, I'm certain there are more productive things you can do with your time.

1stLt Nick S - Bush did in fact mess up a salute because the dog he was holding started fidgeting. He put the dog in the chopper then came back out and gave the Marine a proper salute

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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht - In some cases, the good taxpayers of America are paying for those perks!!!

Capt Walter Miller - Sir, you are a troll.

SSG (Join to see) - That and then some!!!

Those job statistics don't take into consideration all of the people that fell off of unemployment because those people are no longer tracked. It also doesn't take into consideration all the jobs that were created that were only temporary jobs. It also, and this is a big one, doesn't take into consideration what kind of jobs they are. Jobs where a person cannot work more than 30 hours a week because if they do the company has to provide benefits that they cannot afford. So the jobs aren't exactly what you would call careers now are they? Our country, for those of us who have not gone blinded by his highness's rhetoric and the left wing mantras of how great this person in the oval office is, can see that our country has gone to hell in a hand basket. And before you take up the left/dem/libtard battle cry of "But Bush..." I don't want to hear it. Sell it to someone who is buying because I and a lot of others here aren't. Bush did not cause the economic and sociopolitical issues this country is facing today. It is time for the current administration to take the blame for the current issues and quit blaming the Bush administration seven years after the man left office.

IMHO Bush should have vetoed TARP. It was passed mainly on party lines and is one of the things that he did that I strongly disagree with. Problems is it would have been sitting there waiting for obama to sign on his first day.

As did I. Still I am addressing Miller's suggestion that it was TARP which brought about the credit crisis in his attempt to blame Bush for the whole thing. First he claims Obama was successful while blaming Bush for the credit crisis. When challenged on this and how much more enabled the crisis than any of Bush's actions (specifically the actions taken by the Democrats to enable people to buy homes they could not afford), he stated TARP was on him. Ok, I'll accept that TARP may have made things worse and that is indeed on him for signing the bill. However, if you read through Miller's comments throughout RP, you'll see that he believes President Obama is the" best President this country has had in the last 50 years." That despite the fact that Obama supported TARP, doubled down on it when he took office, and likely would have supported the policies which enabled the credit crisis in the first place. So, this essentially contradicts his original premise that the President has been economically successful.

All that said, President Bush did not have much of a choice when it came to working with a Democrat controlled Congress where the first vote for TARP before the amendments, caused the market (DOW) to drop over 770 points. It may or may not have been the action the President wanted to take at the time, who knows. But you cannot deny that he was absolutely pressured into signing it.

Let's also not forget, the Democrats had a veto proof House and Senate at the time for bills which if at a minimum, satisfied the concerns of the center leaning/moderate Democrats, would have survived a Bush veto.

I think we've all got a handle on how the housing crash and credit/debt. crisis happened, the same thing that always happens when government gets it's fingers into things too far. Not just failure... Catastrophic Failure!

What I want to know is when are we going to start giving the current Administration and affiliates credit for what's going on... they've been in office 7 years now and have done little or nothing but exacerbate the problems, no thanks to both houses of Congress.
Like a wise man once said..."What's the opposite of "Progress"? "Congress?"
When were promised "Change"... how's it workin' for ya?

We're paying more & more... for less and less! Unless you count getting more and more of NOTHING!

Yeah, it's definitely from a liberal website, but it turns out that the facts have a liberal bias.

Walt

We don't have to wait. Just look at Europe which has had decades of experience with this program. The UK is on the verge of collapse. Medical care is rationed. Council Housing, basically public housing is 50% short of housing for citizens. 20% of public housing is stting empty because there's no money to fix it. The government is charging £14-20 "bedroom tax" to those they consider to have an extra bedroom perhaps because their children have grown. Yet no one can move because here is a shortage of one bedroom homes and homes with more than three bedrooms. England is over run with Roma from Slovakia and Romania who come only for the benefits and then send the money home. Single mothers are now predominant. Some people have been unemployed for over 10 years and many have never worked. 20% of Scots 18-30 are unemployed. The same for Wales which has seen every coal mine and steel plant closed. Alcoholism is rampant in the schemes and estates and Heroin use is growing. The government keeps cutting benefits to those in the most need and the rest are being sanctioned for failing to follow the smallest rule. A type 1 Diabetic died recently who had been sanctioned (benefits cut or denied) because he missed a meeting. He was found a week later dead from ketoacidosis because he had no insulin. An autopsy found no food in his stomach or large intestine. And he was a Veteran!
No. we needn't wait to see. For some people it's already here. Borrow, tax and spend. Open or uncontrolled borders did or is doing them all in. And there's no one to blame but the Liberals and their grasping voters.

Statistics can be made to come out any way you want them to. It is how it is packaged. If i create 500 part time minimum wage jobs I can make that sound better than creating 250 full time well paid jobs. That is all I was getting at.

GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad Can I get one of those at Office depot?

That's where I got mine CPT (Join to see)! ;-)

I laughed out loud Gunny. Good one

Right you are Gunny! Pegs my BS meter too!

The nonsense (aka BS) that passes or maybe a better term is "masquerades"... as wisdom in both the economic and political arenas in these times is truly appalling... And characterizing what the Current Administration has done as "successful" is a misnomer!

In my view, when one is witnessing the slow disintegration of our Country and Way of Life, it is both difficult and decidedly inappropriate to remain dispassionate. Our Parents and Grand Parents have both personal as well as philosophical concerns, but the members of some of our younger generations seem quite content to put us on the road to ruin by considering political and social methods that have brought nothing but calamity where ever they been tried.

One might say there are no economic problems, only political ones. Economic problems, over time are by and large self-correcting. Political ones however can and do create and exacerbate problems that are claimed to be "economic"... as demonstrated on numerous occasions by the current administration.

I have no particular allegiance in the sense that many might... That is I neither root for nor against a political party. Sadly, I see little difference between the current iterations of Republicans or Democrats.

Politicians today are little more than parasites, feeding off the producers of this Country. Even their ideologies are no longer clear and have no real intent but to grow government and use it as a tool to suck the rest of us dry of all our resources, monetary and otherwise. There is no way I can see to reform them. It is the nature of government itself that must be changed.

The way to do so is simple -- Return to the principles set forth in the Constitution. The means of accomplishing that... is the challenge.

Government, in limited form is a necessity and good when limited in it's scope and method. However, government that is allowed to grow beyond narrow and explicitly defined limits can easily become oppressive at least and tyrannical at worst, infringing on liberty, rights and the property of "We the People".

Our Founders recognized this danger and designed the Constitution, The Bill of Rights and referenced other documents of wisdom, such as the Bible, intended to guide and constrain them and their successors. Unfortunately Constitutional restraints have for the most part been either discounted or nullified over the years, leaving politicians and unelected Bureaucrats among others to decide what is proper... without consent of the governed (electorate). Unfortunately, a significant portion of the electorate has become either ill-educated or to a large degree un-educated in the workings of our Republic.

The result has been massive growth of government and increasing levels of tyranny because of the fact that large numbers of the electorate don't know how "The Republic" is supposed to work.

Most would agree "limited government" works best... but as they say "the Devil is in the Details." Beyond that, if allowed, government can metastasize & gradually gains power and influence in areas where it can only do more harm than good.

Our government and many others have evolved into States preying on their Citizens, while they can be and do good, They more often do the opposite. The more they grow the more they succumb to "Lord Acton's Law": "That Power Corrupts & Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely!" And the bigger Government grows, the greater the probability it'll succumb to Lord Acton's Axiom.

LTC Stephen F. -

LTC Stephen F. - not just clothing but cotton, cotton cloth, sheets, lumber and furniture not too mention tobacco.

LTC Stephen F. - The colonists were not British citizens. famously, they had no representation in Parliament. That was the rub.

Walt

Capt Walter Miller - I realize the colonists were not represented in the House of Commons and thus the cry of taxation without representation made perfect sense. Representation in the House of Lords is another matter though since the governors in this nation when it consisted of colonies were "Lord" to one degree or another. Granted the House of Lords was not renowned for supporting democracy in those days :-)
I am first generation USA citizen and chose to become a citizen when I enlisted since I was a dual citizen because my parents were British citizens. I am pretty sure several of my ancestors fought on the side of the British in the 18th century. I don't know if they fight in this country yet; but, I do know my paternal grandfather and his brother fought with the British Army in WWI

I don't really think we have to wait, do we? Every commercial venture the President has backed has been abysmal failure. Every piece of legislation he has put his name to has been the product of someone else's fight (keep in mind that he quickly abandoned the fight for the Affordable Care Act and didn't join the battle until after it was won in Congress). The jobs numbers that this posting leads with are a joke (unemployment is down when joblessness is up?). It would be funny if it weren't so tragic. However, I will concede that Barack Obama is a political success. You can't argue with that when the man not only won the highest office in the land, but also was reelected. However, there is little honor in that given his record of disasters...

BS SGT Brookins; All I have to do is drive through Phoenix and other towns all over Arizona and see all the empty Business Buildings, Store Fronts and boarded up Shops in Strip Centers all over, where there used to be hundreds of thriving businesses and now there is nothing! Many hundreds Shopping Centers, Car Dealers, Restaurants, Grocery Stores and Gas Stations that had been in business for 20, 30, 40 years and more are gone in the last 5, 6, 7 years! I don't know where you're living, but I'd be very surprised if you're not seeing the same thing where you live, no matter where it is...

PFC Janelle Fletcher - Much of what you agree with is correct; however, you don't have to wait years to know what each quarter's GDP is, neither the unemployment nor many other benchmarks that are updated on a quarterly and even monthly basis. The ACA only took a couple of years so see our premiums skyrocket. When he promised shovel ready jobs, he himself laughed saying "I guess they weren't so shovel ready after all" only a few weeks after. When he bailed out corporations that allowed their greed and incompetence get the best of them, using our tax dollars, instead of letting them fails as any capitalist economy should. When he said that we could keep our Doctor and keep the same coverage, we found that to be untrue within months. When he promised immigration reform, and he had the first two years of his administration with a Democratic House and Senate, we found out immediately that it was a lie. I could go on quoting and re-opening old wounds but that should be your task before making a statement.

Much of what you say is correct; however, you don't have to wait years to know what each quarter's GDP is, neither the unemployment nor many other benchmarks that are updated on a quarterly and even monthly basis. The ACA only took a couple of years so see our premiums skyrocket. When he promised shovel ready jobs, he himself laughed saying "I guess they weren't so shovel ready after all" only a few weeks after. When he bailed out corporations that allowed their greed and incompetence get the best of them, using our tax dollars, instead of letting them fails as any capitalist economy should. When he said that we could keep our Doctor and keep the same coverage, we found that to be untrue within months. When he promised immigration reform, and he had the first two years of his administration with a Democratic House and Senate, we found out immediately that it was a lie. Unemployment for the Black communities is much higher that any other and higher than when he took office. Crime rate has worsened thanks to his State Department's interference with local PDs. I could go on quoting and re-opening old wounds but that should be your task before making a statement.

SCPO Carl Wayne Boss - LOL...tell ya what there smart guy, I'm 42, graduated college a dozen years ago (after having to WORK my way through college-no parents, no free ride BTW) with a BA in History AND a BS in Business after switching from Economics-MBA is next up. I have been raising a family and making a living for quite some time. Oh, and I don't know where you're from, but the economic conditions where I am in the upper Midwest generally, Minnesota specifically, are actually fairly good; not that the same can necessarily be said for every state and region in the country.

Perhaps YOU were asleep when you read what I wrote...at the very least, you either didn't read it carefully, or you extrapolated from what I wrote to address YOUR pet economic peeve. Either way, you made a wildly off-base assessment that doesn't actually relate to what I wrote.

I was merely countering the misconception that many people have--and think about when they vote--that the economy is "controlled" by, or is a direct cause & effect reaction to, the president's policy. Influenced, sure--how much has always been debatable--but not controlled by this one man. The overwhelming weight of economic theory would support that. What I wrote was limited to that, the president's credit/blame for the economy, NOT the totality of government's interaction (regulation, taxation or policy) influences on the economy. That's a whole different discussion.

On a side note, if any one person influences the economy the most, it would be the Fed Chairman, not the president; although the Fed Chair is appointed by the president.

LOL all you want to SGT Tracy; I'm well over 60, and I'm probably not as smart as you think you are... I Graduated from College more than 40 years ago after I got back from the war in Vietnam, majority of which I paid for on my own dime as I worked for a living and raised my family and several of my Grandchildren.

I've been successful in business and helped Motorola Semiconductor Product Sector & ITT Courier Terminal Systems be successful in their businesses by keeping their Physical Plant Facilities and contents protected against the Loss of product, manufacturing infrastructure & Buildings world wide at an absolute minimum.

I worked with a lot of people with Masters Degrees & PHD's in various disciplines and found that more often than not... the more educated they were... the more dangerous they were to themselves and those around them...

Also managed to oversee a wide variety of projects during the construction boom that went on in the City of Phoenix for over 25 years, while completing a concurrent 37 year career in the U.S Coast Guard & Air Force Reserve from which I retired on top of the E-9 list. Unfortunately I was already 7 years past the automatic out at 30 edict and didn't get to pin on E-9 in spite of being No. 1 on the list for 3 years running. But E-8 over 37 still makes for a very nice retirement check!

We're glad you're doing well in Minnesota... but wondering why if things are so great back there... why so many of Minnesotans end up coming out here to Arizona for the winter... and end up staying?

I... made a wildly off-base assessment... in your Opinion!

I've lived through enough of your "Cyclic Economics" since the 50's I think, that between experiences in a couple of Family Businesses in Wholesale Food & Beverage Distribution and Grocery Business in 2 different states and a Large Restaurant/Retail Chain with more than 700 locations Nationwide, as well as a number of business cycles during 8 years of employment in the Consumer Electronics Industry... I think I've got a pretty good feel for how our economy works!

Oh and that's in addition to the 20 plus years I mentioned earlier, spent ramrodding Hundreds of Construction projects in the City of Phoenix such as 3 of the 4 Airport terminals at Sky Harbor International, every high-rise built in town since 1984, a couple of Ball Stadiums and other sizable Sports Venues, 8 - 5 Star Hotel and conference Centers for outfits like J.W. Marriott, Westin, Sheraton, Hilton and several other minor complexes, A number of large Warehouse distribution Centers for outfits like Amazon, Target, Wal-Mart and some other little outfits like that... , I could go on but you get the idea!

I know for a fact that what any "administration does or does not do" has a very direct effect on the economy and always has. No one is speaking about "One Man"... But as the Man in the Oval Offices "leans"... so the business cycle prospers or doesn't and under current Administration we as a Nation haven't prospered by any measure!

Unless you consider the proliferation of part-time jobs, vice full-time jobs due to the so called ACA prosperity. The more the government meddles in business in what ever way that might be, the more impact it has... usually to business's detriment. My Grandfather had also been in business in this country for over 80 years, since before WWI and attested to the similar experiences.

The FED, the EPA, IRS, DOE, DOC and a number of other Dept.s you name 'em under the federal umbrella, all need to re-evaluated and either drastically downsized, re-organized or done away with all together. As many of them are nothing more than a drag on the Country's economy.

SCPO Carl Wayne Boss - "...and I'm probably not as smart as you think you are". Your opening line. ("I'M"? I think the word "you're" would be better.) If nothing else, when you decide to blast someone else on your perception of their intelligence, you may want to proof read that part. You might want to edit that line. Your call.

But I digress.

My point still stands. I made a very specific reply about the economic influence of the president; the “one man” the question’s author referred to. You extrapolated from that and made it about your ax to grind regarding general government involvement in the economy. I suspect you assume I share the author’s opinion of the current president’s success; if (IF) that’s the case, don’t. I have a bit of a laissez faire streak in me. In point of fact, like you, I am not overly fond of government overreach in the free market economy and skeptical of the "success" that was in question.

Also, you inferred I hadn’t graduated college, made a living yet or raised a family. I’m not sure what misleading clues convinced you of that, but in the end, you assume too much and that doesn’t make for a winning retort.

Lastly, I appreciate you wishing me luck. Whether you were serious or if you were being facetious, I’ll accept anyway and reply in kind. Good luck to you sir, and good day.

SGT Tracy; I generally proof read everything I write, several times before I post it.

I minored in English & Creative Non-Fiction Writing. My High School English Professor, was a Frenchman, named Mr. Franscois Teriault (phonetically pronounced Franswah Terryo). But at the tender age of "40 something", you probably don't know what "phonics" are.

It was a system they used to use to teach young 'nes how to spell & sound out words, that I understand has been long abandoned by most school systems & replaced by some other kind of egg-head education chicanery.

Anyway I've spent many of my 45 plus years in the Fire Service (my parallel career, outside the military) on State & National Building & Fire Code Committees writing Code Law. "I'm" is what is known as a contraction of "I and am".

Oh if I didn’t explain it earlier... "Mr. T" as we all called our High School "English Professor" who always maintained, that many of the so called "rules" about the way things are done in the English language, are just stupid (possibly because he was a Frenchman)! My College English professors at Phoenix College and Grand Canyon University of 30 years ago had much the same attitude as “Mr. T”.


We, his students agreed & I still do. Many of the "Style Books" published by numerous Book Publishing Houses & Newspapers like "The New York Times" & "The Wall Street Journal"... Don't always agree on what is "Proper" either. "Mr. T" always said this a a "Creative Writing Class... so be "creative"... "do what "feels right," the rest will fall in place as you go... just make whatever you're writing sound good when you read it!" And for most of the past 40 plus years, that philosophy has served me fairly well!

So... I'm still probably not as smart, as you "think" you are! But never the less here I am... again! I said what I meant... and I meant what I said! So if it's all the same to you... I'll let it stand! And you can continue being a "writing critic" if you wish!

Glad to hear you have a BA in History... somebody needs to know History... I hope it was "American History"... I think I'd save my money on going after an MBA though... I know a lot of MBA's that are out of work... because they're continually told they have more education/experience than most companies are willing to pay for and therefore won't hire them.

I've got a couple of cousins in that boat, one of 'em has an MBA & a PHD in Physics, Howzat for a weird combo!? He graduated almost 10 years ago & up until Sept. 2014, was still working in the same CompuServe Computer store he was working in, all through College. But he finally got a job teaching Physics at USC where he graduated from. He says it's boring as hell, but it's a good paying, full time job, at least it pays better than computer sales , though he still does that part-time!

Now back to YOUR point... The point I was TRYING to make which you apparently ran right over, was this... Like Mark Twain once said ..."there's Liars... damn Liars ... and there's Statistics"... I discount all three... I EXTRAPOLATED NOTHING... and I make NO assumptions about you sharing anyone's opinion or not! I go by what I see... Which is NOTHING...it's ALL SMOKE AND MIRRORS... and I see what I describe below... for your edification...

"The proliferation of part-time jobs, vice or in place of full-time jobs"... And the fact of the matter remains, that I still drive through the streets in the over 600 square miles of the City of Phoenix, as well as the 15 or so other municipalities around it... and towns all over Arizona, & I see many hundreds of the buildings that I inspected as they were being built 10, 15, 20 plus years ago... Business buildings, Warehouses, Strip Malls with their multitude of Store Fronts, Grocery Stores, Restaurants, Gas Stations and C-Stores.... Hundreds of them dark, boarded up, empty... because the once thriving businesses that were in them are "GONZO"... "FINEE"... "CAPUT"... "NO LONGER WITH US"... "TAKIN' THE DIRT NAP"! Get it?

The majority of them have gone down in the last 5 or 6 years or so, during the Economy caused by the current sitting Administration. You can "attempt' to defend it all you like... but there are more and more Cities & Towns, across this country that are in the same shape... whether you want to admit it, or not! And I'd venture a guess, that the same conditions exist in Minnesota, to a greater extent than they did 5 or 6 years ago too!

Now, here you may have been close to accurate and I quote ... "you inferred I hadn’t graduated college, made a living yet or raised a family. I’m not sure what misleading clues convinced you of that, but in the end, you assume too much and that doesn’t make for a winning retort."

I admit I may have "assumed" that since your profile shows you're still in the Service, that you're NOT working in the civilian economy... So on that point, I may be guilty of making an "assumption or three" and/or an "extrapolation or two"... My Bad...

If you're 42, I'd surmise you've been out of school for at least a decade (and should be a Warrant Officer or LT. by now, have a young family, maybe 2or 3 kids like I did when I was your age and I lived on base, in base housing (actually it was a Light Station and my Family and 2 others shared 14 acres of Paradise at the Southern tip of Point Loma, California outside of San Diego) and in many ways I was "insulated" from the "civilian economy", though my wife was not! How's that for EXTRAPOLATION! Oh and sorry to disappoint... as I so often do... I wasn't trying to "WIN" anything... I was simply trying to convey information. "Nuff Said"... aye SGT!?

And BTW... your "POINT" remains standing... it was well supported and defended... Carry on SGT!

Senior Chief, Port Safety/Security Specialist C.W. Boss