Posted on Sep 18, 2014
SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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We had Lieutenants saluting each other, now I ask this: Should an E-3 stand at the position of parade rest for an E4 Specialist (not a corporal)?

FM 7-21.13 The Soldiers Guide in Chapter 4 addresses customs and courtesies. It states that Soldiers junior in rank will stand at parade rest when addressing an NCO unless otherwise directed.

I remember when I was a PFC, I had a Specialist who was adamant about all E3s and below standing at parade rest in front of him. Was he right?

What say you RP?
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1LT Company Commander
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Absolutely not. LTs should not be saluting one another and Specialist has not authority to be putting an E3 at parade rest. That's just someone being power hungry. That's just someone who needs a good ass chewing.
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SSG Company Fsnco
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SPC is still a automatic rank that anyone can achieve just by being able to breath. Nobody should be standing at parade rest for a SPC.
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1SG Company First Sergeant
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11 y
"unless a CDR at some level intervenes " sums up my point. There are set timelines when a Soldier will be promoted, but it is not "Automatic" as the regulation would have you believe. A PFC with 24 months TIG that is flagged, WILL NOT be promoted, thus shows that it is not automatic, and that certain criteria must be met other than TIS/TIG. You can tell by my initial response to the question, I too feel that they should not have to stand at parade rest and the regulation backs up my feelings
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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11 y
If by automatic you mean: A PFC who is not flagged, MOSQ'd, other wise eligible, and is in the eyes of the company commander deserving? Then yeah... it is automatic. Sound about right 1SG (Join to see) ?
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1SG Company First Sergeant
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SSG Company Fsnco
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11 y
Roger I understand it is not actually automatic in all cases. The point I was trying to make is that as long as you can breathe and not get in trouble you will automatically make SPC. This does not mean a PFC should stand at parade rest for you just because you were well behaved for 6 months longer than him. Yes you are correct regulation backs this up. sorry for any confusion with the "automatic" remark.
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CW4 William Van Almsick
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Edited 11 y ago
Many people have difficulty when given authority, whether it be authorized or wrongly perceived. Sometimes a friendly chat can help solve this, sometimes a swift kick in the ass, or, at the worst, some wall-to-wall counselling in the First Sergeant's office (yep, that one dates me).

In a lot of units, officers and NCO's can be pretty scarce at times so inexperienced SPC's tend to get away with this kind of thing because the officers and NCO's are off doing their other duties and no one is watching. From my experience in an aviation unit where you have 4 Commissioned Officers and 26 Warrant Officers hanging around, we were able to nip this in the bud with some friendly chats (plus being 6'5" and 230 lbs helped a little)

And we were also able to talk to the PFC's and SPC's when they were acting up with a new promoted NCO. It was all about finding the proper way to motivate someone to learn and asking, "How would you want to be treated?"
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Sgt Joshua Strain
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This is why Marines don't have "Specialist"
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
SFC (Join to see)
11 y
I would love for the Army to get rid of the "Specialist" Rank and go strictly with Corporal.
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PO1 Rick Serviss
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Maybe the 2 LT's were married and he salutes her at home, too?
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Edited 11 y ago
A SPC is not an NCO, therefore no, a PFC should not be required to stand at Parade Rest for a SPC, however the PFC should stand at Parade Rest for a CPL. If a PFC chooses out of respect for the SPC's rank, then that's their own choice.
MSG Gerry Poe
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If the 1SG wants it to happen, then so be it! NCOs better make it equal in each PLT and enforce the good training! To easy!!
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LTC Scott O'Neil
LTC Scott O'Neil
11 y
Personally, I believe that lineage, history, customs and curtsey and Drill and ceremony are being forgotten in the United States Army. I can not talk about the other services but these subjects need to be shared with young soldiers from basic through to retirement. These subjects teach and instill esprit de corps within The Army. We have forgotten our roots and a soldiers needs to be proud of their services roots. If we trained these subject there would not be discussions like this in this forum. A question to prove a point, why are the blues pants a different color that the jacket?
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MSG Gerry Poe
MSG Gerry Poe
11 y
Well our organizational structure doesn't allow for the rank of CPL only SPC.
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MSG Customer Care Representative
MSG (Join to see)
11 y
LTC Scott O'Neil, if memory serves me correctly it goes back to when the cavalry soldiers would use their jackets as padding to sit on over their saddles, shielding the jackets from the sun. Meanwhile their pants would be a lighter shade due to fading from sunlight.
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SPC(P) Jay Heenan
SPC(P) Jay Heenan
>1 y
LTC Mark Gavula, a lateral promotion is nothing more than filling out a 4187.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
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I think that all E4 Specialists and below belong to the SPEC4 Mafia and therefore don't stand at parade rest for each other.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
CW5 Sam R. Baker
11 y
Bring back SPEC5/6/7 for those who don't want to lead and just do their job!
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SFC Intelligence Analyst   Atl
SFC (Join to see)
11 y
CW5 Sam R. Baker , I believe that there was a thread on that subject already as well. I definitely agree with you though. I am not sure why it was ever done away with.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
CW5 Sam R. Baker
11 y
I had a SPC while I was an NCO in Japan. I will never forget his name, SPC Garby. He was one of the hardest working, nice dudes I ever met. I kept rying to get him to go to the board. He refused and recanted each time saying he never wanted to lead, he wanted to just do his job, MP. He only wanted to be a patrolman and a damn good one. He didn't want to be responsible for counseling, inspecting formations, accounting for equipment and the like. He just wanted to follow and be a Soldier and do his job. I do think there is a place for folks like that, but then we have RCPs that move these folks on in a up or out system.
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SSG Laureano Pabon
SSG Laureano Pabon
11 y
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SFC (Join to see) you stated "Mafia", maybe just maybe there might be another Army hidden with in whom do have PFC's stand at parade rest for them. (The Specialist Mafia), A group of highly trained, highly skilled, able to manipulate any situation and take control of matters that arises as it arise. Able to go undetected into areas no NCO/officer could ever think they can enter. I mean why do you think we call them Specialist ? I mean we don't see it and that's because they know we can't see it, that's why they do it. We perhaps are too focused on FM's and Laws and perhaps get a bit tunnel vision that the Specialist are fully aware and perhaps they do have PVTs and PFC's stand at parade rest for them. Think about :)
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CPT Keith Celebrezze
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The vast majority of lieutenants do not salute each other in the Army. I have never seen or heard of anyone under the rank of E5 being required to give any courtesy to a fellow pvt-spc. For example at basic training despite the fact that there's a gang of specialist trainies running around, everyone is referred to as private. The same ideas apply to the regular Army and individuals under E5 don't have any courtesies to extend to their superiors who are themselves under E5. However even in basic training I've seen e fives that needed to go through training again and they were required to enforce courtesies for themselves. The drill sergeants were mad when sergeants E5 in training, even basic training, weren't given courtesies by the trainees ranked E four and below.

Good luck.
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CPT Keith Celebrezze
CPT Keith Celebrezze
>1 y
Important caveat, if the e4 is a corporal or in a bona fide position of authority, like team leader, then they be given courtesies.

GL
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SSG Brian Carpenter
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Noth Specialist and Corporal are junior NCO'S the only difference is leadership positions vs technical not much different than the WO and Officer relationship. When in doubt look it up.
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