Posted on Mar 3, 2021
SPC Signals Intelligence (Sigint) Analyst
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So I feel this is a an interesting question to ask (sort of). The main focus is like with those that would be misidentified by email. Like I get identified male due to my masculine name and i have identified others wrong due to their names. I also know this is major thing with transpeople since they might have legal name that comes off as wrong gender.
I know it shouldn't be an issue in the case of a professional/official setting, but also know we don't put other things like sexual orientation, skin color, religion, eating habits, et cetera in signatures (though we do communicate them like religious needs in person), so though makes sense, also comes off a bit weird. However as someone who gets misgendered as male, thought I might start adding. It's kind of weird, but misgendering is common and kind of weird and seems like best solution in regards to email.

Just looking for thoughts opinions, I think I've seen it only a few times before in profesional/official setting of the national defense.

As anyone else seen it's use in military, DoD or other official government use?
Posted in these groups: Gender_differences_male_female GenderRespect__logo RespectEmail_logo EmailA_yin-yang-yuan_transgender-symbol Transgender
Edited 1 mo ago
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SSgt Engineering
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We just use gender too often in our language when we don’t really have to. I’m all for not putting Mr, Mrs, or Ms and just putting names. For emails especially, they/them/their are the pronouns to use alone with their names. So much less of a chance of misgendering a person.
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SPC Signals Intelligence (Sigint) Analyst
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I think a lot of people enjoy being identified as Mr. Mrs. Ms. Mx. Et cetera. (I personally prefer rank or nothing, I'm not a Mr, though it sounds nice in my opinion, I'm not a Ms who needs a Mr to become a Mrs, and I'm not Mx (makes me think of maintenance)
I also try to avoid using gendered language if I am unsure, but I do fall into assuming. I guess that would be a separate question to be asked: "do you prefer having gendered language used on you, or prefer people not assume as well as use genderless language with you."
I'm under assumption people actually prefer gendered language, so when using genderless for them they don't like it, but I could be wrong, never asked really.

Tl;dr, assume people like getting Sir'd and Ma'am'd, though I don't expect any backlash for choosing not to assume
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SSgt Engineering
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SPC (Join to see) it’s just a lot of work to keep gendered language going. Especially in the world of unlimited pronouns. If I’m referring to a person across the table I say that is “their drink” as opposed to “her drink” or “his drink”, their is just easier. By using the possessive of their it also is a catch all for all uncommon pronouns as well but is acceptable because it is grammatically correct. I say “they work at the VA” or “they are in the Army” as well. I’ve never once had someone miss a beat in conversation either with it to include non-binary people.

If someone specifically requests me to use gendered or alternative pronouns, I’ll honestly try. I’ve just yet to ever have my hand slapped for using non-gendered pronouns. I sure have had it slapped quite a few times for assuming male/female though!
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SPC Signals Intelligence (Sigint) Analyst
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SSgt (Join to see) Hahaha
I'm technically Non-binary myself to the degree where I prefer she/they but have issue not gendering things. I think I personally find enjoyment in that use of gendered language though higher risk of conflict, but I try to actively think and apply they/them et cetera to others, but I'm not very good at that though I try.
I would hope if anyone ever had an issue they would tell me so I could correct myself.
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SPC Signals Intelligence (Sigint) Analyst
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SPC (Join to see) i think it's awesome you can naturally use gender-neutral language.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
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Generally speaking, unless you actually know the gender, avoid using gendered pronouns.

I am actually VERY strongly anti-pronoun at all. Pronouns just confuse things, especially when dealing with multiple subjects.

Bo went to the Tom's store. When he got there, he opened the door. Afterwards, Bob walked in. When Bob walked in, Tom was wandering around. Later, he was talking with a customer.

Who got there? Who opened the door? Did Tom get there and open up the store? Did Bob get there and Tom opened the door for him? Did Bob get there and open the door for himself? I don't know.
Who was talking to the customer? Bob? Tom? Some other unnamed man? Who knows.

As such, I prefer to find ways to just skip pronouns altogether. If I HAVE to use pronouns for flow, I use gendered pronouns ONLY if the gender is known (you have personally seen / talked with the person or verified gender with someone who has).
I have used the Googles and the AKO Lookup to ID folks, especially for professional e-mails. (During the Job application process, I generally do a minimal amount of research on who I am sending e-mails to. This is doubly true if if I get an e-mail from a Dana, a Kim, a Pat, a Chris, etc....)
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SPC Signals Intelligence (Sigint) Analyst
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When I had been asked about my opinion about pronouns, I always personally say "I hate the pronoun game" as in "I do not know who you are talking about, don't use pronouns"

Thank you for sharing
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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In the Military it should be Rank and nothing else. a SPC is a SPC until the SPC gets Promoted to SGT. Then the SGT is a SGT.

This happens in the Army A former USAR Command Commander would get miss gendered alot, Within her CMD it was well know. at a Change of Command for her AD counterpart, one of the SPC that I worked with sat her in her seat for the ceremony. Luckily the SPC, a petite female, escorted the Gen to her seat and called her SIR. The General politely, and close to the SPCs ear and said....."Its Ma'am". The SPC was so embarrassed she left the ceremony and returned to work thinking she was in deep trouble. She was actually ill because of the situation.
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SPC Signals Intelligence (Sigint) Analyst
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This may be the case and I agree. However when discussing people in the 3rd person, people normally don't keep saying rank/last name, they utilize pronouns. Also in a relaxed environment people will sometimes use gendered "slang".
For example in your own thing here you used "her" 5x and "she" 3x, not the person's rank.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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SPC (Join to see) - Very True, But I was using her and she to point out certain points. The last one when the SPC was physically ill for miss gendering a Gen and thinking she will be kicked out of the army for it .

In a relaxed environment most older people, and mainly people in the military will use he/she without thinking, Unless they know what the preferred is something different, and they are thinking about when needed to use it.

Its going to a needed culture change.
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