Posted on Mar 31, 2016
What is the proper way to handle soldiers (junior enlisted) addressing each other as Sergeant Major?
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Is there a regulation addressing this or is it just something the old school soldiers would never dream of doing, and the new school soldiers just do whatever they want?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 55
They are probably doing it to yank your chain. I didn't give a shit if my Marines called each other the Grand Poobah of upper butt crack, as long as they did what they were supposed to
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SSgt Terry P.
1stSgt Eugene Harless Absolutely,1stSgt,usually a teasing manner to a peer telling them to get their job done. LOL
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CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025
1stSgt Eugene Harless Young troops that do that goofy stuff are the ones you can rely upon when needed.
They know who is in charge and are just playing around!
I absolutely love young troops for; their willingness, ability, strength, ingenuity and stupidity.
They know who is in charge and are just playing around!
I absolutely love young troops for; their willingness, ability, strength, ingenuity and stupidity.
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SFC Edwin Watson
The troops need to be aware of their environment when doing so. It's one thing to bullshit in the back of the motor pool or out in the woods. They need to watch it when at the main px or anywhere the installation brass is likely to walk by.
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My friends use to call me "Command Private Major" when I started working as the driver. They meant no harm and certainly no disrespect to our CSM. I think the Army's sensitivity training might be making all of us a bit too soft to feel comfortable with harmless humor.
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SFC Cynthia Eyer
Calling each other a non-existent rank is different than disrespecting a military member and the service they have honored all of us with so as to obtain their rank. Now that’s insensitive.
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All Soldiers are to be addressed by their rank. Referring to each other by another grade is at the very least disrespectful to that grade or the person holding that grade in that unit. If they are doing it in gest indicating their future, then a simple motivating conversation should handle it, if it is in a mocking manner then the conversation turns to disrespect.
You assert your lawful authority and make the correction.
You assert your lawful authority and make the correction.
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PFC Adam Whirls
They were probably referring to each other as command Private major or command specialist of the army. It’s a joke
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SGT Jason Quarles
Really. Take the stick out of your ass. They are just joking with each other. Unless they are calling a superior something other than their rank than just leave it alone as it just soldiers being soldiers
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CSM Darieus ZaGara
You have no business speaking to me or anyone else in this manner. Your choice in response was uncalled for, unprofessional and rude. SGT Jason Quarles
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TSgt Carl Johnson
SrA Paul Pfeil - Sometimes, with the newer uniforms, it's hard to see the rank until you are very close to the other member, especially the OCP and Marine Corp digital camo.
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Never knew this was an issue, on the spot verbal roundhouse kick to the face should work.
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CSM Michael Chavaree
Simmer down big guy, it was a joke, this is like 2 years oldCPL Daniel Eastland
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PFC Adam Whirls
Probably referring to each other as command private major or specialist general of the army or something just joking around no need to get uptight unless they are referring to you.
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CSM Michael Chavaree
Nobody getting uptight, honestly privates were not that immature where I come from, I am not used to them acting like children. PFC Adam Whirls
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1LT William Clardy
Seriously, CPL Daniel Eastland, how did you miss the "verbal" in "on the spot verbal roundhouse kick"?
Just ponder how a master of righteous verbal massacre like R. Lee Ermey would have handled it...
Just ponder how a master of righteous verbal massacre like R. Lee Ermey would have handled it...
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To me what is funny about this is that I knew of an instance where the proper form of address for a Sergeant (E-5) in my company was Sergeant Major. We even had an incident during a battalion awards formation where they were calling out individuals for awards shortly after he was promoted, when the Adjutant called out "Sergeant Major" and both Sergeant Major and the Battalion Command Sergeant Major responded. Almost the entire battalion busted up laughing. His rank was Sergeant and his Last Name was Major.
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Capt Seid Waddell
SSG Robert Webster, there was a 1LT Hook at Eglin when I was there; the whole base was looking forward to his promotion.
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Once, I encountered a Sgt in my company out in town. He was in civvies, wearing a ball cap with regulation Captain's bars pinned to them. I discreetly called him to my position. Told him to hand me the cover. I calmly unpinned the bars and put them in my pocket and returned his ball cap. I ordered him to report to the Company 1st Sgt on Monday with his SSgt at 0630 and give a full explanation of what just happened.
At 0633 on Monday, the only thing I heard was "You did what?!
At 0645, the 1st Sgt brought me a cup of coffee (not something I expected him to do, or that he usually did). He smiled and said "the situation is well in hand sir". He asked if he could have a seat, I said sure. We silently enjoyed our coffee and the beautiful morning. Then we stepped off together to take morning formation. I never got any report of what happened. It was about three weeks before the Sgt could look me in the eyes.
At 0633 on Monday, the only thing I heard was "You did what?!
At 0645, the 1st Sgt brought me a cup of coffee (not something I expected him to do, or that he usually did). He smiled and said "the situation is well in hand sir". He asked if he could have a seat, I said sure. We silently enjoyed our coffee and the beautiful morning. Then we stepped off together to take morning formation. I never got any report of what happened. It was about three weeks before the Sgt could look me in the eyes.
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CSM David Heidke
The 1SG was showing you that he appreciated the professional and courteous way you handled the situation and that he had it. Great job, Sir.
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Sgt Lincoln Harris
Well done. That is however totally different from two LCpl's joking around while making the hours pass as they rib each other w/ jokes. As long as no one is holding themselves out to be a higher rank than they actually are, it's harmless imho.
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Um, one of the oddest Qs I've ever seen on RP. I wish this was all I worried about my Tomahawks doing over the weekend. I hope that's their version of living resilience and goal setting!
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If this is the worst issue you have in your unit, sit back, relax and have a beer, TR things are well in hand. Remember they're 18-20 year old kids with a job that can get them killed. Relax and look for real issues.
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I have a little different take on this. I suspect they were just screwing around and didn't think anyone would overhear them. If that's the case, I don't think they were being disrespectful at all, just being young troops doing what they do. I would still approach them and tell them someone (you) did overhear them and they need to be careful even when they're just screwing around, because it could be taken as disrespectful, and you're sure there are more than a handful of Sergeants Major that might be pretty offended by it. At that point, it would be more than just a friendly word of advice! I'd just leave it at that.
If you did think there was an intent to be disrespectful and it wasn't just messing around, I would jack them up. I would explain to them the problem - not about the regulations or impersonating or anything like that, but simply about being disrespectful of a senior NCO. If they were in my chain of command, I would probably have them do some research on the CSM and SGM ranks, when they came into being, why they came into being, what their responsibilities are, at what levels of command they serve, how they are promoted, things like that. I'd have them give a presentation to the rest of the Soldiers in the Company or at least Platoon on what they found, and address the respect and courtesies owed to SGM and CSM by Soldiers junior to them. If they aren't in your chain of command, I'd go to my PSG or 1SG and ask them to accompany me to the Soldiers' PSG or 1SG to discuss the incident with them.
If you did think there was an intent to be disrespectful and it wasn't just messing around, I would jack them up. I would explain to them the problem - not about the regulations or impersonating or anything like that, but simply about being disrespectful of a senior NCO. If they were in my chain of command, I would probably have them do some research on the CSM and SGM ranks, when they came into being, why they came into being, what their responsibilities are, at what levels of command they serve, how they are promoted, things like that. I'd have them give a presentation to the rest of the Soldiers in the Company or at least Platoon on what they found, and address the respect and courtesies owed to SGM and CSM by Soldiers junior to them. If they aren't in your chain of command, I'd go to my PSG or 1SG and ask them to accompany me to the Soldiers' PSG or 1SG to discuss the incident with them.
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MSG (Join to see)
my x wife used to call me sgm, dont know how to say this but intent means alot, so if it was meant as disrespect deal with it, otherwise let the sm know this remark is disrespectfull and dont do it again
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Egad! The Specialist Mafia has their own rank structure?!
I guess my response would be to order a hit.
Best way to do that is promote them to Sergeant.
I guess my response would be to order a hit.
Best way to do that is promote them to Sergeant.
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1LT William Clardy
That's too rewarding, 1SG (Join to see).
Make them corporals and avoid the pay raise (and the wait)!
Make them corporals and avoid the pay raise (and the wait)!
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I'm not sure I see the problem here. When I was one of a few hundred LTs going through the Infantry Officer Basic Course at Ft Benning, the guy who showed up with the roach coach for lunch (most likely himself a retired senior NCO) would call every LT "general" and any NCO "Sergeant Major". It was just a joke. When I got to my first unit, officers and soldiers alike would sometimes joke or tease each other (their peers, not officer to soldiers) by referring to them as a higher rank. Usually it was done if a guy was talking like he had all the answers to the Army's problems, or somehow acting above his grade, or whatever. But no one ever took it as being disrespectful to the real SGMs or Generals.
Is that the type of peer to peer joking you are trying to stop, or are you saying the soldiers do it as part of the work day, like saying "SGM Smith, come here" ? That would need to be stopped with a simple "knock it off". But if they are just kidding around with each other informally, who cares? IMO trying to cite regulations for something like this is pole vaulting over a sidewalk crack.
Is that the type of peer to peer joking you are trying to stop, or are you saying the soldiers do it as part of the work day, like saying "SGM Smith, come here" ? That would need to be stopped with a simple "knock it off". But if they are just kidding around with each other informally, who cares? IMO trying to cite regulations for something like this is pole vaulting over a sidewalk crack.
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SPC (Join to see)
About time someone gets it. Let the boys be boys, and joke around a bit. If it builds camaraderie and morale, why stop a good thing.
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1LT William Clardy
Do remember that not all forms of camaraderie-building are good for discipline, SPC (Join to see).
That said, good officers and NCOs know when to see something, and when to "not see" something.
That said, good officers and NCOs know when to see something, and when to "not see" something.
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SSG (Join to see) , As others have stated, put a stop to it in a professional manner. With that said, I'd find out why they are doing it. At one time, way long ago in my first permanent party unit after Basic and AIT there was a fellow Soldier in my Cohort who's name started with Top....and was 5 syllables in total length. All the members of the Cohort called him Top - much to the consternation of the other members of our platoon until they got to know us, and then called him that too. It turned heads a lot of times, got some of us smoked on occasion, but we never did it out of respect to the 1SG. Same with the other member of our Cohort with the last name Major...who made SGT a few years later and we THEN took particular joy in shouting at SGT Major to get over here or to go report to 1SG, or whatever else. Rank/Name combos can sometimes lend themselves to all kinds of headaches and entertainment. Oh some of the combos I've seen over the years, LOL.
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It was common when I was a private (2007ish) that my CSM would call soldiers "Sergeant Major in-training". Granted, adding the "in-training" definitely makes a difference. My point is, I think it really depends upon the intent. Is the purpose to build comradery and motivate, or it is intended as disrespect to those who earned the rank of SGM or CSM?
If it is intended as disrespect, I would treat it as such. If not, I do not see a problem.
If it is intended as disrespect, I would treat it as such. If not, I do not see a problem.
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We often made up rank names in response to NCO's giving sub names for rank. "senior specialist". You were called a senior specialist but in all actuality you're just a specialist, period. We called ourselves command specialist majors etc. One thing that stuck out from one of the NCO's I looked up to was he would address us as the next rank. When I was SPC he called me SGT but he also treated me as such giving me leadership roles.
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Nip it in the bud right now...goes to good order and discipline no matter the context.
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It must be a "New Army"
Shanigans if I did that I was smoked all day. When I first came back from AIT i accidentally called my PSG Sir and that was the last time I called him that.
Shanigans if I did that I was smoked all day. When I first came back from AIT i accidentally called my PSG Sir and that was the last time I called him that.
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SFC Ronald Burris
Well, when I was in BT in 1974, since I had gone through ROTC and knew the ranks I thought I would impress the Co Cdr that was going around and meeting each Soldier. When he got to me I responded with "Yes Caption" instead of Yes Sir since we had just gotten there the day before. Well, needless to say I was the first one to have to do the "four count push-up" that definitely wasn't fun to do. I sure learned my lesson.
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1SG (Join to see)
Once when I was a brand new buck SGT I referred to a seasoned SSG as "this guy". The look in his eyes burned me to my soul. I was piss scared of the wrath that was about to be fall me. Now Soldiers just don't understand. Recently had a Soldier straight from AIT that could not grasp the fact that I wasn't a dude when referring to me.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
1SG (Join to see) Funny. When I was a PVT, I had a PDF who could not grasp the fact that I wasn't a dude when referring to me - or anyone else in his PLT for that matter.
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Has everyone forgotten how we talked amongst our buddies when we were PFCs? Calling each other by strange ranks when they think the adults aren't listening is probably some of the LEAST offensive garbage coming out of their mouths. If they get casual enough to vocalize it in public, a simple "Cut that shit out!" is usually enough to solve most minor issues (unless you've already lost their respect). Overreacting and over punishing can quickly turn your happy and motivated Lance Colonels and Lt Corporals into unmotivated malcontents who you can no longer trust with your back turned. Nothing makes the job of an NCO easier than having motivated troops who don't constantly need to be watched. Ruin that at your peril... and if you're so concerned about "microagressions" against generalized pay grades when they think you're not listening that you make them present research to the platoon about it, they'll likely be more careful about being overheard, but most of the platoon will consider you an oversensitive douchenozzle and laugh even harder when that same PFC imitates what you would sound like if you were working the street as a tranny hooker.
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I can't believe this is really a topic of conversation. You are an NCO, step up and have a talk with these Soldiers, if you don't like how they are acting. Seems like everyone else has sand in their ass crack, bringing up UCMJ or other non-judicial punishments.... Oh the those of you with the "back in MY day" comments, things have changed. Get over it.
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CSM (Join to see)
Step 1. "Teaching Moment".....wait and observe understanding then decide if Step 2 if even necessary....don't ponder crap too long... act and move on ...and give Joe a chance to unpluck his head
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Article 134 of UCMJ covers impersonating a commissioned, warrant, or noncommissioned officer.
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-26.htm
http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-26.htm
UCMJ - Article 134 - (Impersonating a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer,...
Punitive articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Includes information from the Manual for Court Martial (MCM), 2002, including text from the UCMJ, elements of proof, explanation of offenses, and maximum permissible punishment under military court-martial.
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PO1 B. Kieth Cooper
We are not society we are under contract and are required to behave in an appropriate manner. Middle and upper management have forgotten that we are a structured organization and there are consequences for inappropriate behavior. Let them whine, if you have proper documentation and the regulations they have no defense.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Impersonating seems a bit of a stretch to me. If you introduce yourself as the rank I’d agree, but you can’t be responsible for what someone else calls you.
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Act like an NCO and be judicial in determining if they are just popping off and ‘Relaxing as in Jackson’.
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1LT William Clardy
Yup, CSM Charles Hayden Passed 7/29/2025.
Deciding what you won't see is just as important a leadership skill as deciding whose orders you'll be ignoring any given day.
Deciding what you won't see is just as important a leadership skill as deciding whose orders you'll be ignoring any given day.
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