Posted on Sep 13, 2016
LTJG Ansi Officer
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If a fresh 2LT/ENS ordered an E9 to attention because of a disagreement, would the E9 have to comply? What would possibly happen?
Posted in these groups: Army2lt 2LTSgm SGMArmy usa or 09b.svg CSM
Edited 9 y ago
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Maj John Bell
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Edited 9 y ago
I only ordered "lock it up Marine" to someone who was getting emotional and needed to take a breath. As soon as they regained their composure, I would tell them "stand easy". I also did not conduct discipline counseling when I was agitated. Sometimes telling someone "we will discuss this later." had the needed calming effect on both of us.

In my day, all of the commissioning sources did a pretty good job of explaining the weight of legal authority held by junior officers vs. wisdom/experience authority held by SNCO's. So I find it really difficult to imagine any Company Grade Officer thinking that locking up a SNCO was a viable course of action.

Other than being intoxicated, I can't imagine a situation where a seasoned Cpl., or a competent Sgt., would get to that point, let alone a Senior SNCO. I guess I might do it with an intoxicated SNCO who was abandoning his rank. But only if his actions had eliminated more discreet courses of action.
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SGM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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LT: SGM, do you have change for a dollar?
SGM: Sure, LT
LT: That's no way to address an officer! Now let's try it again. Do you have change for a dollar?
SGM: No, SIR!
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Lt Col Jim Coe
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Edited 9 y ago
If this happens, things got out of hand a long time before. The average LT should understand the power of the E-9. I had the honor of knowing a couple of Air Force flight engineer CMSgts who had fixed airplanes and flown as crew chiefs and engineers for nearly 30 years--they had flown in Korea and Viet Nam. The Captains and Majors in the squadron set the example for us junior officers by showing them a certain measure of respect, like always calling them "Chief" and asking their opinion on issues in their specialty. I learned quickly to call them Chief with about the same respect I called the Squadron Commander, "colonel." They never did anything to make me even remotely consider trying to pull rank on them. Showing such lack of mature communication with a Chief would probably get you a counseling session with your flight commander and possibly with the unit commander depending on the circumstances. This is not to say that the Chiefs were perfect. If a LT found a problem with a Chief as long as it didn't immediatley effect safety, security, or mission accomplishment, the best thing to do is to talk with your chain of command. The Squadron Commander can talk with the Chief if necessary.
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SGM Patrick Kirby
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Yes, I would comply: as leaders we are always on display; to not reply is to discredit the young officer and the intregrity of the system. Wold that be the end of it, no. That would be handled between myself the young officer his commander.
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CPT(P) David Thorp
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I could never do that. There are other ways.
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SGM Chief Executive Officer (Ceo)
SGM (Join to see)
9 y
Do you have enlisted time, Sir?
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CPT(P) David Thorp
CPT(P) David Thorp
9 y
10 years.
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SGM Chief Executive Officer (Ceo)
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9 y
That puts your answer in context for me! Thank you, Sir.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
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In 35 years I can't recall any LT's 2nd or 1st that went out of their way to talk to a 1SG let alone a SGM/CSM. I do remember a 2LTthat attempted top correct a CSM that was talking to some NCO's and the CSM just have a good day Sir,and walked away shaking his head. Later that day the LT met the BC, problem solved. Hell even before I retired I avoided CSM's/SGM's who in their right mind goes looking for trouble :) . On a side not that maybe some officers can answer, don't they teach you guys/gals to steer clear of grumpy old NONCOMS? There has to be a power point or briefing before you commission. Hell PVT's figure it out in basic :)
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PO2 Maritime Law Enforcement Specialist
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I'm only an E-5 and I'd Probably just laugh at them. O-1's don't have much pull
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CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols
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It is a lawful order. A very IL-ADVISED lawful order. An up close and personal meeting will follow the situation I'm sure.
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SCPO Investigator
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I take it you missed the class in Boot Camp on rank and Officer v. Enlisted??? Why even ask such a question?
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LTJG Ansi Officer
LTJG (Join to see)
9 y
I occasionally like to stir the pot. ;)
In all honesty, I was looking forward to the reaction people would predict the E9 would have. You'd have to be crazy to disrespect a Chief or above in that caliber.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
9 y
LTJG (Join to see) - Glad you cleared that up, had me wondering. SCPO Donnie Bowerman had the same thought when I read your question. Of course, I would salute anyone with the gold, W-1 up to the CNO. However, when it comes to JOs, I do feel as if I had to properly teach them protocol when they get out of line. real difficult for a JO to have to learn about communications and all the documents relating to comms from an E-3 and somewhat embarrassing. He asked to to explain all about communications equipment and I tossed him the tech manual and said he needed to read up on each piece of equipment before I could intelligently discuss it with him. Lesson learned rather quickly. One of my Comm Officers, shortly after I made CPO asked me how I ever made CPO, I wonder how I ever made MCPO with my rather beligerant attitude
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LTJG Ansi Officer
LTJG (Join to see)
9 y
MCPO Roger Collins - That is a great example of why you should never let pride get in the way. As a fresh E4, I had LCDRs come to me for training because I was the SME on several UHF systems. I would always have enough time to train them, their JO's and the Chief's getting qualified. Whenever we rarely have that one person who is "too good" to ask for training from a junior enlistedman, they learn rather quickly that - that type of attitude and thinking won't get you very far. It's not about the rank, it's about the knowledge.
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MSG Stay At Home Dad
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As a Master Sergeant (E8) in Afghanistan I passed a young 2LT as I was leaving a building and he was entering. I gave him a quick nod as I put my cap on my head and continued on. He called out, "Hey, troop." I turned my head and he said, "is that how the Army taught you to treat an officer?" I said "I'm not sure what you mean sir" to which he replied "oh now it's sir? You couldn't be bothered to even acknowledge me let alone salute when you passed me a minute ago!" So I went to attention, snapped him a salute, and said, sorry sir, I had things on my mind. I'll remember next time." He actually had the audacity to say, "you'd better."
Fast forward to a regional briefing a few weeks later. All of the brass were there, and I spotted this young 2LT sitting in one of the chairs against the wall as I came in. He also saw me, but looked confused as I took a seat AT THE TABLE. During the meeting the 2LT meekly raised his hand at one point to ask a question about Intel. The 1-Star in charge told him that it would be addressed during the Intel briefing part of the meeting. Shortly after, the 1-Star introduced me and said that as the resident Intel expert for our area I would be delivering the Intel briefing. Then he swiveled in his chair toward the 2LT and said, "Lieutenant, listen to this man. He has answers to questions you don't know to ask yet."
After I completed my briefing the 1-Star informed everyone that my office was the coordinating office for all Intel in the area and that they should all go to me for any questions or needs.
After that the 2LT found his way to my office, and apologized about twenty times over the course of an hour for his behavior. To which I continuously replied, "no worries sir, you're new. Everyone's gotta learn sometime."
MORAL: 1. Treat people with the respect that we all deserve as human beings. 2. Treat those with rank with the respect their ranks demands. 3. Don't EVER lord what you think is your power over others, because 4. someone else's position may be beyond what you think is your power.

*That lieutenant and I got along swimmingly after all of that.
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