Posted on Dec 31, 2013
Writing your own evaluation (NCOER/OER)? Is it really THAT bad?
51.7K
160
108
13
13
0
As long as your rater/senior rater agree with it (by digitally signing it), why do some feel it's 'taboo' to write your own evaluation?<br><br>Here's some (hypothetical) reasoning:<br><br>Rater takes criticism personally - When we sit down to discuss my evaluation, I point out misspellings or grammatical inaccuracies; I don't want this held against me during a promotion board, but my senior rater takes this personally and gets upset.<br><br>It's worked this far, why change it? - I've been promoted on a previous centralized promotion board (or two) and I've read all the promotion board AARs to keep myself current on what's being looked at as higher importance.<br><br>Too Busy - My rater is too busy or I don't want to be a burden. I think it's my career and I feel a certain obligation to 'write it up' for my senior rater for review it and provide all necessary documentation to justify the quantifiable ratings.<br><br>Not an articulate writer - I'm a much better writer than my senior rater. I have a degree in English and my senior rater doesn't have a degree. I'm not looking to use fancy words, just words that appear on an educated level greater than high school.<br>
NCOER
OER
Military Career
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 63
14
14
0
LTC (Join to see)
Totally agree with you Sir! It has been mentioned a couple of times, but the Army has support forms that accompany the evaluation shell- produced correctly, the form will encompass all you have accomplished in your rating period. This is absolutely the responsibility of the rated individual- this is where you have the most input and responsibility. A lot of the reasons provided for why people should write their own evaluation remove all responsibility of the Rater and Senior Rater to execute their responsibilities as leaders. No matter how in tune you are with the Board AARs or the accomplishments of your peers, you will be missing a key component of essential feedback of your performance, how your rater/senior rater feel you can improve, and also, important career advice about how to handle the changes in your respective branch. Our leaders have insights that we don't at our level and we need to use and leverage that to ensure our future success, assuming that one is willing to put in the required effort.
(1)
(0)
SSG Cliff Duffey
Yes that is true but you would be surprised how many NCO's out there end up writing their own! I know I had a hand in all my NCOER's, with the exception of my first one, which my 1SG wrote. Todays Army is much different than when I first joined!
(1)
(0)
LTC (Join to see)
One of my BIGGEST pet peeves…EVER!! The rater should take on the responsibility of doing his/her job…which includes writing the evaluation. I mean, dang, if you gave him/her a good support form…and he/she actually conducted quarterly counseling...90% should be done already. A rater having you write your own evaluation is LAZY! Granted - they may not hit everything you want them to or it is not written as good as it should be…but you can address those prior to signing and request a tweak here and there.
Now - I do see the other side of the coin. If the rater doesn't care and wants you to write your own…of course you're going to write it like you're the best thing since peanut butter. Raters allowing subordinates to do that, however, are not allowing others whose raters do write their subordinate NCOERs to play on a level playing field during promotion boards, etc.
No Soldier, NCO of Officer that I have rated has written their own.
Just my humble input!
(6)
(0)
SSG Daniel Deiler
Unfortunately I've been an NCO for several years and have yet to have my rater write my NCOER. I've always written my own and submitted to my rater for revisions and review. While this has helped me immensely with the experience of learning what a good NCOER looks like, it always made me feel like my leadership cared more about advancing their own careers rather than trying to teach and mentor their subordinate NCO's and future leaders.
(0)
(0)
13
13
0
MSG(P) Quick,
If the rater/senior rater doesn't know how to convey the intended message to the board in an effective manner, then I personally believe it becomes the individual responsibility to help the rater/senior rater achieve "YOUR" desired results (maybe not all, but close to it). It is your career, so OWN it, is how I see it. I'm all for a draft write-up in addition to the support form. I am now in the process of training my junior Commissioned Officers on how to effectively annotate senior rater comments, especially for their Senior NCOs. For example, I am so sick of seeing generic bullets for our OUTSTANDING Senior NCOs and some may believe this is considered to be a good write up, but it's not in my humble opinion.
o promote to Master Sergeant ahead of peers
o send to First Sergeant course now
o assign as a First Sergeant immediately
o unlimited potential for increased responsibility
Now how many Senior NCOs are receiving evaluations as such based on the aforementioned?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one example of a write up that I have done for my Senior NCO and they are all "different" form one another! I focus on the next promotion (short term), schooling, duty position, ranking amongst peers, and potential for future service (long term). By the way, this individual was promoted--first look.
o select for Master Sergeant in secondary zone; groom now for Sergeant Major
o send to First Sergeant course at earliest opportunity
o ready now to lead a Company of 200+ Soldiers, NCOs & Officers; must assign immediately
o leadership ranks in the top 2% amongst 91CMF's I have senior rated; he is #1 of 14
o possesses superior potential; clearly a future Command Sergeant Major
So if you have a great relationship with your rater/senior rater, and you walk on water in the organization then write your own and turn it in and they will be glad to receive your "working copy". Just my two cents MSG(P) Quick. Thank you for the post.
If the rater/senior rater doesn't know how to convey the intended message to the board in an effective manner, then I personally believe it becomes the individual responsibility to help the rater/senior rater achieve "YOUR" desired results (maybe not all, but close to it). It is your career, so OWN it, is how I see it. I'm all for a draft write-up in addition to the support form. I am now in the process of training my junior Commissioned Officers on how to effectively annotate senior rater comments, especially for their Senior NCOs. For example, I am so sick of seeing generic bullets for our OUTSTANDING Senior NCOs and some may believe this is considered to be a good write up, but it's not in my humble opinion.
o promote to Master Sergeant ahead of peers
o send to First Sergeant course now
o assign as a First Sergeant immediately
o unlimited potential for increased responsibility
Now how many Senior NCOs are receiving evaluations as such based on the aforementioned?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is one example of a write up that I have done for my Senior NCO and they are all "different" form one another! I focus on the next promotion (short term), schooling, duty position, ranking amongst peers, and potential for future service (long term). By the way, this individual was promoted--first look.
o select for Master Sergeant in secondary zone; groom now for Sergeant Major
o send to First Sergeant course at earliest opportunity
o ready now to lead a Company of 200+ Soldiers, NCOs & Officers; must assign immediately
o leadership ranks in the top 2% amongst 91CMF's I have senior rated; he is #1 of 14
o possesses superior potential; clearly a future Command Sergeant Major
So if you have a great relationship with your rater/senior rater, and you walk on water in the organization then write your own and turn it in and they will be glad to receive your "working copy". Just my two cents MSG(P) Quick. Thank you for the post.
(13)
(0)
SGM Matthew Quick
You bring up some great points, ESPECIALLY the generic comments. A new thread is about to begin.
(2)
(0)
12
12
0
Writing your own evaluation is removing the counseling responsibility that the rater owes to the Soldier. I believe that an evaluation should have a perfect blend of rater and rated Soldier during the building process. This allows the rated Soldier to build an evaluation report that has their input and the rater's input. If done right you can build what you have done and what your rater has seen. Blend the 2 together and chances are you will have one hell of an evaluation.
(12)
(0)
SFC Casey O'Mally
It absolutely removes that responsibility. But what do you as an NCO do when your rater fails in that responsibility? If your rater refused to do their quarterly counseling, do you just accept whatever they throw together at the last minute?
(0)
(0)
SGM (Join to see)
Absolutely not - at some point you have to take care of yourself and senior leaders know what the eval should have on it. I had a NCO seems me his NCOER a few years back and it was written with well intentions but nothing like how an NCOER should have been written. I had to explain to him that while it looked good the poor writing and grammar errors would prevent him from getting picked up.
As senior NCOs we need to engage our raters and hold them accountable as much as we can but in the end we have to take care of ourselves too.
As senior NCOs we need to engage our raters and hold them accountable as much as we can but in the end we have to take care of ourselves too.
(0)
(0)
8
8
0
I personally do not care if I upset anyone when it comes to making sure my NCOER is squared away. It is a direct reflection of you so your rater shouldn't be upset if you correct their grammatical errors or make spelling corrections. I don't believe its criticism when my NCOs point out something that I made a mistake on. It just takes a little bit of tact. It goes along with another discussion with on the spot corrections. Its the same thing just use professionalism and everything should be fine. If someone gets butthurt then who cares.
I agree with SFC Baber, we would have way to many 'stellar' NCOs running around here with a bunch of BS bullets for things they didn't do.
(8)
(0)
SSG Rafael Rodriguez
That's a NO GO. The only thing a sub ordinate provides to rater (if requested) is "missing information" not found in IPERMS or files from leaders. stay away from "Internet Bullets", create your own bullets and make it "from you". It's the rated Soldier's career in your hands. Know your equipment!!!
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
MSG Quick,
Here are my two cents; I have written both my own NCOER ad OERs. I have never (I mean never) let one of my subordinates write their own evaluations. Why? Because if you really care as a leader, then you counsel and write their reports. Being too busy is a cop-out. That's like saying your too busy to do PT? It is part of your duties and the Military expects it's leaders to accomplish all parts of their duties. I shut my door and tell my Soldiers not to disturb me for one hour when I am writing an eval. If you conducted the counseling (1 hour every quarter, really? Is that time consuming?) then the report is easy to write. It also helps the ratee better understand how to write and at times even teaches some seniors how to write. In other words it is an opportunity to learn and develop skills that are critical (writing and communication skills). I don't think an NCO or new officer should be learning how to write a report while writing their own.
To me this is just lazy. I don't think it is bad if the rated person provides their rater a word doc with recommended comments or accomplishments. (I usually do this as a Sr. Rater. Since I don't know all the best jobs my subordinates should hold next, so I welcome suggestions).
Now my last eval I wrote myself. My rater had trouble "starting" any kind of writing, but he was an excellent editor. You could hand him an evaluation and get a completely different product back.
We, as leaders, should not be afraid to look our people in the eye and say "Hey bud, you're missing the mark" and if we are counseling like we are supposed to this is never an issue. No excuse not to counsel. Thanks to technology I've been able to counsel my Soldiers over VTC. Just my thoughts.
(6)
(0)
6
6
0
I think there's a fine line between writing your own NCOER and assisting in writing your NCOER. If used correctly the NCO Support form that you go over with your rater should be very close to the end product of your NCOER. You go over that form together.<div>But writing it completely on your own? I don't think so. When your career is at stake who is going to give themselves a needs improvement or Army Values no? If your rater is too lazy to write your NCOER then they are also probably incapable of accurately assessing what it is that you wrote in the first place. Unless it's completely ridiculous they almost have no choice to agree with you.</div>
(6)
(0)
SSG Robert Burns
Another point is that person is being paid to rate and evaluate you. If they can't do that then what do we need them for?
(4)
(0)
SFC Michael Hasbun
Sadly we operate under the "Peter Principle"... It's not like we can arbitrarily swap individuals ranks..
(0)
(0)
5
5
0
You've brought up very key points SGM Quick, some raters just don't know how to write and how this effects a rated soldiers chances at promotion. I always draft my own and give it to my Rater with here you go, please review and make the changes as you see fit. This approach has worked before and has had success. Now, if I have a Rater or Senior Rater that wants to do it great! I've had plenty of conversations with the Colonel where I pointed out his comments and made my recommendations and that approach worked as well. It truly depends on the rating chain.
(5)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
1SG Rink, do you find that quarterly counselings are not being done? I ask because I know of very few Senior NCOs that actually get counseled by the rater.
(1)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
1SG Rink,
I have used this method on numerous occasions and have always worked out well. I am a believer that nobody know more about what a person did, then that person. I always draft my own NCOER and give it to my Rater for review and editing. I know sometimes supervisors can be busy, so I don't mind helping with my NCOER. I am huge on grammar and punctuation, so this helps also when I write my own and give it to my Rater for review.
(1)
(0)
CSM (Join to see)
CPT Alexander, unfortunately I have to concur with your statement. Very rarely sir are senior NCOs being counseled quarterly by their raters. I was fortunate to have a really great Battalion level commander that placed me on his calendar quarterly to conduct senior Rater counseling. In 18 years of service I have never had a Senior Rater do this. It provided me with great feedback personally and also served as a azimuth check for being a 1SG. I think the biggest problem with the counseling checklist is it's general functionality when using it with the NCOER. Personally in my opinion there should be two separate forms but one that requires raters to counsel quarterly on that NCO's evaluation.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
Isn't that the norm? I can recall three occasions that i didn't have to write my own NCOER.
(3)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
My first two NCOERs where written with single line bullets that I saw on all the other NCOs evaluations...I have written my own ever since, professionally embarrassing, but necessary.
(1)
(0)
3
3
0
Funny you should mention that. Happens with OERs also. I was asked point blank, to write my own OER. Thought it was not appropriate and told the officer so. Told him to just cut and paste my OER support form and change up words. Asked for a new rater after that.
You are right SGT Robredo they are being lazy and skipping out on their responsibility to take care of another soldier.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
In a perfect world people should not write their own NCOERs because it is supposed to be an assessment of their performance and potential. It does not matter how honest anyone think they are, they will never write an accurate evaluation for two reasons. 1- You don't want to jeopardize your own career by not making yourself look as good as you can and 2- You really don't want to write an evaluation so good that would look like you made the whole thing up.
The main problem I see is that raters do not take the time to conduct an initial counseling to tell the rated NCO what is expected of him/her. The raters are also failing at conducting quarterly counselings. These counselings are supposed to tell the rated NCO what areas he/she needs to improve on so when its time for the NCO to sign his/her NCOER, it doesn't come as a surprise to them.
We as leaders need to start doing our jobs. I will never allow any of my NCOs write their own NCOERs, that is my job not theirs. NCOs write their own evaluations because their leadership is or has failed them and this will continue until leaders start doing their jobs.
So to answer your question MSG(P) Quick, I don't think it's a bad thing. Those NCOs that write their own evaluations are the ones that see the lack of leadership and are taking care of their own careers.
The main problem I see is that raters do not take the time to conduct an initial counseling to tell the rated NCO what is expected of him/her. The raters are also failing at conducting quarterly counselings. These counselings are supposed to tell the rated NCO what areas he/she needs to improve on so when its time for the NCO to sign his/her NCOER, it doesn't come as a surprise to them.
We as leaders need to start doing our jobs. I will never allow any of my NCOs write their own NCOERs, that is my job not theirs. NCOs write their own evaluations because their leadership is or has failed them and this will continue until leaders start doing their jobs.
So to answer your question MSG(P) Quick, I don't think it's a bad thing. Those NCOs that write their own evaluations are the ones that see the lack of leadership and are taking care of their own careers.
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
<p>The USCG requires member to furnish bullets prior to rating time to ensure that the rater has a complete picture of the previous cycle. That said, I have command authority access to the HR computer system and have completed my entire EER forwarding the completed document to my supervisor on a number of occasions. I share the same advantage you mention in that I have developed a talent for writing, and take the time to develop significant supporting information to justify my evaluation. To date, all of my supervisors have appreciated the extra effort, and in two cases during the last five years they have actually raised my evaluation numbers above what I submitted. </p><p><br></p><p>As long as there are checks and balances to ensure that somebody isn't getting over on the system, it can be a good thing. I encourage my subordinates who have command access to the HR computer system to complete their own EERs and forward them to me. It's a great mentoring tool for when they are required to assume the role of rater.</p>
(3)
(0)
2
2
0
I have written all but my first and my most recent NCOERs. I detest it; I am that guy that takes it personally. It is the Rater's responsibility to track their Soldier's accomplishments. You'll notice that I said "accomplishments"... because no one asks an NCO to write their own Relief for Cause.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
My very first NCOER was written by myself. My rater handed me a blank NCOER with my admin data filled in and told me: "Here's your NCOER. Let me know when it is completed." I must have looked at him like he had 3 heads because he told me that I heard him correctly and that I knew better than anyone what I had accomplished or what I had failed at. I knew what goals I had met and what goals still needed work. He added that he too also knew what I had done or hadn't done and what I wrote down had damn sure better match what he had in his records. I completed my NCOER and handed it to him and he returned it for correction. It seems that I evaluated my self as "success" in two areas where he felt I should have marked "Excellence".
This was a development strategy. He told me that if I ever expected to objectively rate subordinates later in my career I would first have to learn to objectively rate myself.
This was a development strategy. He told me that if I ever expected to objectively rate subordinates later in my career I would first have to learn to objectively rate myself.
(2)
(0)
SSG Jason Deters
as for awards, I've never written my own DA638 but have written several for others. In all of my awards, only one was actually written by an NCO.. the others were all written and submitted by Officers.
(1)
(0)
2
2
0
Of course! I was asked to do it and I also took it upon myself to do it since I was rarely counseled quarterly during my career.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
I keep a running NCOER and update it as I do things during my rating period. I believe that only you really know what you have accomplished over that time. I then present it to my rater. It is my raters options to write new bulletes or use what I have given them. Most of the time it becomes a colaberation. Overall, yes I have taken an active role in writing my NCOERs. It is a reflection of my carreer and if I do not take an active role it may hurt me in the long run. I have seen NCOs that do not take and active role in their NCOERs and get ones that they are not happy with.
On the award. I had to write my own MOVSM (volunteer award). I had worked hard volunteering and believed I deserved it for all my hard work. It was not important to my NCO at the time. He didnt want to write it up and basically told me if I wanted the award to write it up myself. So I sure did that, cause it was important to me.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
It has been mentioned to me, but rest assured... It DID NOT happen.
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
This is my opinion on writing your own NCOER/OER. I have had
to do this several times; I would then have to go outside of my rating scheme to
peers and other PSGs that knew what type of leader I was. I had to do this because
how can you honestly see your faults that you have made and where you need to
pick your game up? This point was made by someone in a earlier comment it is
like grading your own APFT. Yes some of us have the integrity to rate ourselves
the way we feel we need to be, but again how do we see where we need to
improve?
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
It's too bad that our leaders - at whatever level and in whatever branch - don't take the time to make performance appraisals and leader development a priority. One of the foundational principles of our military is that we develop leaders. If a leader doesn't make it a priority to put leader development in writing (aka an OER, EPR, appraisal, etc.), then it's just lip service - and hypocritical!
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
<p>"Not an articulate writer - I'm a much better writer than my senior rater. I have a degree in English and my senior rater doesn't have a degree. I'm not looking to use fancy words, just words that appear on an educated level greater than high school."</p><p>...</p><p> </p><p>This one would be why I generally write my own. My degree is not in English, but most of the time, the awards and NCOER's I see being written up by junior and senior NCO's are ATROCIOUS. It would be foolish of me to have someone else write my NCOER, knowing full well that the product will be sub par. They can address content all they like of course, but the actual structure and formatting I'll take care of. NCOER's are too important for amateur hour...</p>
(2)
(0)
2
2
0
Part of leadership is "Leader Development". What kind of example are we, as leaders, setting if you do not meet your responsability.
I have asked my soldiers to "hand-jam" an NCOER, but this is only for my reference. I am not perfect and could have missed a significant accomplishment of the soldier, that can greatly impact how the evaluation is completed.
It is my responsability to present my evaluation to my soldier, if the soldier takes it personnally or the counseling session becomes difficult, don't be a leader, that is what we do. Interpersonal Communication Skills are just as important as the evaluation, again you are teaching, mentoring and coaching your soldiers through your action in that counseling session.
I hated recieveing an NCOER that if you took my name off of it, you might not know who it referenced. NCOERs are a tool to help build better leaders and 'weed' out those that should not lead.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next
-
Ask questionGet expert advice and
tips for your questions. -
Post updatePost pictures, personal updates, plans, or anything you like!
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google 
