Posted on Dec 31, 2013
SGM Matthew Quick
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As long as your rater/senior rater agree with it (by digitally signing it), why do some feel it's 'taboo' to write your own evaluation?<br><br>Here's some (hypothetical) reasoning:<br><br>Rater takes criticism personally - When we sit down to discuss my evaluation, I point out misspellings or grammatical inaccuracies; I don't want this held against me during a promotion board, but my senior rater takes this personally and gets upset.<br><br>It's worked this far, why change it? - I've been promoted on a previous centralized promotion board (or two) and I've read all the promotion board AARs to keep myself current on what's being looked at as higher importance.<br><br>Too Busy - My rater is too busy or I don't want to be a burden. &nbsp;I think it's my career and I feel a certain obligation to 'write it up' for my senior rater for review it and provide all necessary documentation to justify the quantifiable ratings.<br><br>Not an articulate writer - I'm a much better writer than my senior rater. &nbsp;I have a degree in English and my senior rater doesn't have a degree. &nbsp;I'm not looking to use fancy words, just words that appear on an educated level greater than high school.<br>
Posted in these groups: 1efa5058 NCOERBilde2 OERImages Military Career
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CMC Robert Young
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<p>The USCG requires member to furnish bullets prior to rating time to ensure that the rater has a complete picture of the previous cycle. That said, I have command authority access to the HR computer system and have completed my entire EER forwarding the completed document to my supervisor on a number of occasions. I share the same advantage you mention in that I have developed a talent for writing, and take the time to develop significant supporting information to justify my evaluation. To date, all of my supervisors have appreciated the extra effort, and in two cases during the last five years they have actually raised my evaluation numbers above what I submitted. </p><p><br></p><p>As long as there are checks and balances to ensure that somebody isn't getting over on the&nbsp;system, it can be a good thing. I encourage my subordinates who have command access to the HR computer system to complete their own EERs and forward them to me. It's a great mentoring tool for when they are required to assume the role of rater.</p>
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SSG Roderick Smith
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I have written all but my first and my most recent NCOERs. I detest it; I am that guy that takes it personally. It is the Rater's responsibility to track their Soldier's accomplishments. You'll notice that I said "accomplishments"... because no one asks an NCO to write their own Relief for Cause.
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SSG Jason Deters
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My very first NCOER was written by myself.  My rater handed me a blank NCOER with my admin data filled in and told me:  "Here's your NCOER.  Let me know when it is completed."  I must have looked at him like he had 3 heads because he told me that I heard him correctly and that I knew better than anyone what I had accomplished or what I had failed at.  I knew what goals I had met and what goals still needed work.  He added that he too also knew what I had done or hadn't done and what I wrote down had damn sure better match what he had in his records.  I completed my NCOER and handed it to him and he returned it for correction.  It seems that I evaluated my self as "success" in two areas where he felt I should have marked "Excellence".

This was a development strategy.  He told me that if I ever expected to objectively rate subordinates later in my career I would first have to learn to objectively rate myself.
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SSG Jason Deters
SSG Jason Deters
>1 y
as for awards, I've never written my own DA638 but have written several for others.  In all of my awards, only one was actually written by an NCO..  the others were all written and submitted by Officers.
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SFC Derrick Hardison
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Of course! I was asked to do it and I also took it upon myself to do it since I was rarely counseled quarterly during my career.
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SGM Matthew Quick
SGM Matthew Quick
>1 y
Sounds fairly normal, SFC Hardison.
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SFC Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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I keep a running NCOER and update it as I do things during my rating period. I believe that only you really know what you have accomplished over that time. I then present it to my rater. It is my raters options to write new bulletes or use what I have given them. Most of the time it becomes a colaberation. Overall, yes I have taken an active role in writing my NCOERs. It is a reflection of my carreer and if I do not take an active role it may hurt me in the long run. I have seen NCOs that do not take and active role in their NCOERs and get ones that they are not happy with. 

 

On the award.  I had to write my own MOVSM (volunteer award).  I had worked hard volunteering and believed I deserved it for all my hard work.  It was not important to my NCO at the time.  He didnt want to write it up and basically told me if I wanted the award to write it up myself.  So I sure did that, cause it was important to me. 

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1SG Company First Sergeant
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It has been mentioned to me, but rest assured... It DID NOT happen.
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SFC Sniper Oct
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This is my opinion on writing your own NCOER/OER. I have had
to do this several times; I would then have to go outside of my rating scheme to
peers and other PSGs that knew what type of leader I was. I had to do this because
how can you honestly see your faults that you have made and where you need to
pick your game up? This point was made by someone in a earlier comment it is
like grading your own APFT. Yes some of us have the integrity to rate ourselves
the way we feel we need to be, but again how do we see where we need to
improve?



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LTC Jason Strickland
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It's too bad that our leaders - at whatever level and in whatever branch - don't take the time to make performance appraisals and leader development a priority.  One of the foundational principles of our military is that we develop leaders.  If a leader doesn't make it a priority to put leader development in writing (aka an OER, EPR, appraisal, etc.), then it's just lip service - and hypocritical!
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Edited >1 y ago
<p>"Not an articulate writer - I'm a much better writer than my senior rater. I have a degree in English and my senior rater doesn't have a degree. I'm not looking to use fancy words, just words that appear on an educated level greater than high school."</p><p>...</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This one would be why I generally write my own. My degree is not in English, but most of the time, the awards and NCOER's I see being written up by junior and senior NCO's&nbsp;are ATROCIOUS. It would be foolish of me to have someone else write my NCOER, knowing full well that the product will be sub par. They can address content all they like of course, but the actual structure and formatting I'll take care of. NCOER's are too important for amateur hour...</p>
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SSG Military Police
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Part of leadership is "Leader Development".  What kind of example are we, as leaders, setting if you do not meet your responsability.

 

I have asked my soldiers to "hand-jam" an NCOER, but this is only for my reference.  I am not perfect and could have missed a significant accomplishment of the soldier, that can greatly impact how the evaluation is completed.

 

It is my responsability to present my evaluation to my soldier, if the soldier takes it personnally or the counseling session becomes difficult, don't be a leader, that is what we do.  Interpersonal Communication Skills are just as important as the evaluation, again you are teaching, mentoring and coaching your soldiers through your action in that counseling session.

 

I hated recieveing an NCOER that if you took my name off of it, you might not know who it referenced.  NCOERs are a tool to help build better leaders and 'weed' out those that should not lead.

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Lt Col Instructor Navigator
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Well, for starters, it's illegal. At least in the Air Force.

Section 8.1.4.1.3 of AIF 36-2406 (the regulation regarding performance reports) states that the Senior Rater "Will ensure no subordinate commander/supervisor asks or allows, an
officer to draft or prepare his or her own PRF. Note: Eligible officers may provide
input."
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SFC First Sergeant
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We as NCO's have an obligation to make the time to write our subordinates NCOER's, and counsel them properly. The time it takes to write an NCOER is on the rater. If the rater is counseling ever quarter like they should, the NCOER really writes its self.

If you as a rater have a subordinate NCO write there own NCOER, you really should consider turning in your stripes. If you are an NCO and you don't nag your rater for your counseling, and basically force them to do there DUTY, then you are just as wrong as they are.

It is your report card, and if your not being counseling how do you know were you are going wrong, or if you are on the right glide path.

Raters and Senior Raters, if the counseling is not being done and you want to give the rated NCO a bad NCOER, all I can say is good luck. You don't have a leg to stand on. Just like when you want to frag a Soldier with AR15's and it doesn't happen do to lack of counseling. Any NCO that accepts a bad NCOER with no proof, shame on you.

End state is: Do your duty, and quit being lazy.
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SFC Military Police
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AMEN AIR ASSAULT BROTHER!
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LTC Operations Officer (Opso)
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With the new OER system it locks you out of the evaluation so that you cannot (from your own login) write your own evaluation. So either you would have to write it and they cut and paste it or have to do it from the rater's computer.

It should be interesting to see how long this works and if the NCOER system will follow suit.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
>1 y
As a follow-up, what I have seen in several instances is "send me rater and SR rater comments in a word document for me to copy and paste."...
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SFC Section Sergeant
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I have help write my NCOER with bullets or just input, however I left it to my rater to make all final decissions.
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SFC Intelligence Analyst
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Yes. I wrote my deployment award and I hated that I had to do it. But I took it as an opportunity to figure out how to write an award for when I became an NCO (I was a Specialist at the time) so the Soldiers I'm responsible for never have to.
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SSG Intelligence Analyst
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Yes. I am actually in the process of writing my own NCOER. I was told by my OIC that he wanted me to write the initial draft of the NCOER for self development and then he would then create a final product. I believe that this is an effective way to develop an NCO especially in my situation when I only have one other NCO under me.
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Sgt Patient
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yep, my boss during deployment looked over and asked what I did for the year... So I drafted it up and sent it to him in a Word doc. T'is the life of a NCO.
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SFC James Baber
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I wrote my last 5 PCS awards, my retirement award, and a few impact awards.


As far as NCOER's, I probably did the base for about 5-6 of them, all annuals, and maybe 2-3 COR, and 1 complete the record.


Not saying it should be the norm, but many times it is becoming that way with many leaders stating they are too busy to do it over the past decade or so.

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SGT Thomas Lucken
SGT Thomas Lucken
>1 y
NCOER easier to write then the old EERs! :-)
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SFC Michael Hasbun
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Of course. I imagine it's fairly common.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
>1 y
^ Agreed.
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CW2 Jonathan Kantor
CW2 Jonathan Kantor
>1 y
I have written my own awards and NCOERs a lot throughout my career... never an OER, which is good.  Once, I was voluntold/begged to write NCOERs for 4 other NCOs in the office, 2 of which outranked me.  I just gave everyone the best write-up I could come up with.  
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
>1 y
I suspect we've all been there. It may be "poor leadership" to be a bad runner, but it's perfectly acceptable to have the grammar and writing ability of a first grader. Our priorities break my heart.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
>1 y
SFC Michael Hasbun Well said. Sometimes the things we focus on make me shake my head. Of course, this is not just an Army thing. I cannot believe the evals I see in the civilian world - and people are stunned that the ones for my staff evaluate (and even enumerate!) them. This is just Management 101, which is the LOWEST level of leadership.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
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Yes to both..had to write my own PCS award, and AAM, when I left Recruiting duty back in '98; Company Commander didn't even want to submit one, because I wasn't a stellar recruiter, station commander (was acting 1SG) had me write one up and he "pushed" it through told the commander it's the least I deserved for surviving the 3-years of hell and leaving with the same rank. Lol...
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MAJ Teacher/Coach
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OER no, award yes and I refused.
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MSG Civil Affairs Specialist
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I have written my own in the past; I now refuse to write my own. My rater should know all of my accomplishments. Though there are a few that I feel I didn't get what I thought I deserved, I took it as an opportunity to do better for my Soldiers. I have always written a first draft, then sit down and having long discussions regarding the past years performance and articulating the accomplishments in a way that for a good Soldier makes that Soldier feel good about the evaluation (counseling session). Yes, the eval is what may or may not be looked at for promotion; however, my feeling is that the NCOER is for the Soldier. Nothing demotivates a Soldier than having a leader that doesn't care or know what that Soldier did over the past year. Writing an NCOER should be difficult and time-consuming because the Soldier should be worth the effort and time.
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SGM Matthew Quick
SGM Matthew Quick
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Counseling is key!
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SFC MLRS/HIMARS Crewmember
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I review all of my bullets before my NCOER gets sent off to the senior rater. I want to make sure all of my accomplishments are annotated properly, grammar is correct, etc. You can sit back and take a hands off approach if you want to, but don't come back crying about how poorly your NCOER was written after the fact.
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CPT Operations Officer
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I think keeping a running record of what happens in your rating period helps the rater and the rated NCO or Officer to better capture an honest picture of what truly happened. I do this for myself because nobody else is going to be my best advocate except for myself. Plus, I think it shows your rater that you really care about what goes on your OER/NCOER.
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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>1 y
Your Outlook calendar is a great tool for doing this. by creating events to cover training, schools, development etc for your team, squad, platoon etc, as well as the quartet use if the counseling, you can go back and review the accomplishments for each rated Soldier. Open the specific events and you can keep personnel notes about each event and mark them as "private" if you don't want others reading if they have access to your calendar. At the end of the day, no one should be writing their own evaluations. Yet, it's a huge problem in our services.
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MAJ Infantry Officer
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Your Outlook calendar is a great tool for doing this. By creating events to cover training, schools, development etc for your team, squad, platoon etc, as well as quarterly counseling, you can go back and review the accomplishments for each rated Soldier. Open the specific events and you can keep personnel notes about each event and mark them as "private" if you don't want others reading if they have access to your calendar. At the end of the day, no one should be writing their own evaluations. Yet, it's a huge problem in our services.
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COL Vincent Stoneking
COL Vincent Stoneking
>1 y
Great advice LT,
I do this monthly myself. I keep a word doc for just this purpose. I update my SPT form quarterly as well (very seldom in my career have the counselings that go with it been done - but the form has always been as up to date as I can make it). I start doing a draft OER about 3 months before the due date. 2-4 weeks before the thru date, I give it to the rater as "some starting ideas". Most times, the final OER is 75-80% my draft.

It will take a bit more finesse with the new ESS system, but I plan on following the same approach.

NOTE: I ASK for quarterly (at least) counseling and take it where and when I can get it, I just don't take it not happening as absolving me of responsibility for my career. And I can state that on the several occasions my seniors HAVE counseled me regularly, I made huge strides as a leader. I also have a draft of my SPT form before I even show up in the new position.
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CSM G357 Sgm &Amp; Senior Enlisted Advisor To The A Co S G357, Director Of Operations
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You should not have to write your own NCOER.  It is the raters responsibility to do so.  However, more often than not, they fail to do so in a timely manner, NCOs "fill in" the admin data with a "few" suggested bullets nearly completing it.  Those raters are also being rated and if they cannot properly conduct the counseling and ratings for their personnel, then it should reflect.  And when you do it for them, it does not allow them to go through the process and learn to do it properly.  They will never learn to effectively write an eval if they are taken out of the process. 


Not saying it still wont happen, it just should not be your responsibility to do it. 

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1SG Michael Blount
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I've actually found writing one's own NCOER a useful tool in comparing what YOU think you did vs what your Cdr thinks you did.  I've used this tool a couple times on my subordinates and found they're harder on themselves than I would have been (I'm the bark, but I will bite to keep people honest). 
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SFC Center Commander
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I don't mind writing mine at all! Like CW2 Evans said in his comments, you might not even WANT your rater to do it. I've had raters who misspell everything and used street lingo. I've also had raters who didn't counsel me throughout the year and left stuff off the NCOER that I wanted on there. I wouldn't worry about the integrity check as much as I would the "Look in the Mirror" check. If you can't write your own evaluation and justify a 1/1 "Among the Best", then you might have some other issues to address!
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CW2 Joseph Evans
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Relax and roll with it. It can be one of the best advantages you get.

Get input from peers, ask your rater for a few of his, etc to put together ideas. Get with  the PSG or 1SG after your rough draft. Go to sites like NCOER.com for the word smithing. The integrity check is there since your rater still has to sign it and will call BS and make you rewrite if he disagrees with something.

Lets face it, you may not want him writing it... not everyone has a talent with words and if he's lazy enough to tell you to do it, he isn't going to put the effort into a good one if you insist.

If your Rater and Senior rater sign it, its fair.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
12 y
Nailed it... What better hands to place your career in than your own?
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SFC James Baber
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Edited 12 y ago

I think the 1st thought by many would be the personal bias one would have for themselves in their own assessment.


While I agree with some of your other points, I think the integrity of the NCOER would be invalid since it was not a true assessment and write up done by the rater.


And if everyone did it, their would be nothing but walk on water NCOs in the military. 

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SFC Michael Hasbun
SFC Michael Hasbun
12 y
That's actually where we ARE at right now...
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SFC Casey O'Mally
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I got tired of my rater waiting until the day prior to it being due, then throwing something together with crap bullets. So I started giving my rate reminders of upcoming NCOERs... With no change. So I started scheduling hard times for NCO counselings and NCOER reviews... Which were ALL blown off or "rescheduled.". So I started just writing my own and giving it to my rater for review and tweak. I literally could not get my rater (and this was over a period of 5 years and 7 raters) to give a flying @$(# about my NCOER. I had mostly excellences, all 1/2 or 2/1, with two 1/1s. But the bullets were CRAP. Rater, senior rater, 1SG didn't care. So I started "helping" my rater by doing his job for him. Usually they tweaked significantly, but used the same basic bullets. A couple literally changed nothing. One changed almost everything - that was the one and only rater I have EVER had actually do quarterly counseling. 16 years as an NCO, one rater counseled me. There is your answer right there.
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SSG Paralegal
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I think the evals should be collaborative. You provide a shell, what you think is needed. Let the rater edit and submit to higher. In addition to your points it gives you a chance to learn to right the evals on a person you know best and who you'll make sure gets a good/fair shake - yourself. It'll make it easier to complete the evals of your juniors later.
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SFC Military Police
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I personally feel that if I have to write my own evaluation then the rater is derelict in their duties. 90% of the time the rater and senior rater are officers who are supposed to be educated and therefore should be able to write a grammatically correct eval. In the off chance that they are not then yes, I feel it's my duty to assist in that area. If they forgot to mention key events that would improve the rating then I should also assist, but that also shows me that they failed to track my performance.
Nothing is more irritating to me than to hear a rater ask someone " what have you done"? It is our duty to track things, rough copy or draft, make notes so that come eval time we have the meat and potatoes.
How many NCO's have signed a falsified document? You know the NCOER with BS quarterly counseling dates that were never performed? That alone goes to the integrity of both rater and rated and puts the reviewer in question also for failing to verify as they are supposed to do.
Perhaps my desire to do things by the book and not be a "yes man" has prevented me from moving up as fast as others but in the end I will still have my integrity and I'm good with that.
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SFC Military Police
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I personally feel that if I have to write my own evaluation then the rater is derelict in their duties. 90% of the time the rater and senior rater are officers who are supposed to be educated and therefore should be able to write a grammatically correct eval. In the off chance that they are not then yes, I feel it's my duty to assist in that area. If they forgot to mention key events that would improve the rating then I should also assist, but that also shows me that they failed to track my performance.
Nothing is more irritating to me than to hear a rater ask someone " what have you done"? It is our duty to track things, rough copy or draft, make notes so that come eval time we have the meat and potatoes.
How many NCO's have signed a falsified document? You know the NCOER with BS quarterly counseling dates that were never performed? That alone goes to the integrity of both rater and rated and puts the reviewer in question also for failing to verify as they are supposed to do.
Perhaps my desire to do things by the book and not be a "yes man" has prevented me from moving up as fast as others but in the end I will still have my integrity and I'm good with that.
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SFC Rich Carey
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Edited >1 y ago
What? Never... I hated it, because I would never give myself due credit...
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MSgt Ediberto L.
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MSgt Quick,

I see you are currently stationed at Ft Bliss Tx. That was my last duty station before leaving the Army in Jan 2001. I was assigned to D Battery, 2-43, 108th BDE, HQ Plt. Worked as a 63B in the motorpool.

You know, in my personal experience as an enlisted leader, Army and Air Force, enlisted evaluation reports are a pain to complete no matter how well in advance you have started or how well you may feel you have written them. Whether the evaluation is yours or your subordinates there are people within your chain that are involved in reviewing them that will feel compelled to make some kind of recommendation before the evaluation is finally put to bed.

I don't recall if the Army was this way so please correct me if I wrong, however, in the Air Force it was against regulations to write your own EPR. It was however, a "rule of thumb" that you do and for the very reasons you stated. Busy, busy, busy. So, who better to efficiently write about all the outstanding things you have done for God and country.

In the Air FOrce, you could "contribute" and shoot your list of "at a boys"/bullets but the odds of everyone in your chain having the same writing style as you are slim to none and would for the most part ensue a back and forth match between raters until everyone but the supervisor it seemed we re happy with the outcome. :) Of course, I am speaking about my experience. Some other folks may have had the fortunate experience to only have to resubmit once due to some grammar error if that. Thoughts?
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CPL Charles Gale
CPL Charles Gale
>1 y
In my opinion I don't thing it is that bad. How know exactly what you have done in your capacity better than yourself. Just as long as everything has been verified by your rater.
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MSG Jose Colon
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In a word, NO. But, if it is not going to happen, and or if your rater cannot spell or put together one coherent sentence, you will be better off writing your own. Remember, he or she is your rater, not the other way around. Otherwise, you could give them a needs improvement on "Competence".
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PO1 William "Chip" Nagel
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Yep, doesn't everybody? No I get you point SFC Matthew B. and yes it is unfortunate but there are plenty of reasons and excuses. I worked in a very specialized field and while I worked with my fellow CTs I may have been the only CTO so who better to know exactly what I do. How could my CTA (Admin) really write my MSA for 21 years of service when he had only been with me the last 3 years before I retired, of course I had to put the meat in it but I think you have a very valid point that leaders should be more aware of what their troops do and have the Administrative Skills to present it well on Paper.
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CPT Battery Commander
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I have been actively involved with my NCOER since becoming an NCO. I didn't do much other than provide information in what I had accomplished In the past year. I help with formatting and it's been a joint effort between my rater, and myself. But I have also drafted a rough working copy and provided it to my rater to help then recall what had transpired throughout the year. I will admit that if support forms were used like they should be, and quarterly counselings were done like they should be, this wouldn't be necessary.

I refuse to write my own awards. I don't feel right about it. I've been told to several times, but never have. Might explain why I don't have bookoos of awards.... But the ones I have mean a lot because the person who submitted them felt I was deserving.
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SFC Internment/Resettlement Specialist
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More times than I can count.
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SFC Kayla Sondrol
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Yes for the E4 Eval and NCOER, and surprisingly for my entire 9 years of service I've never been recommended for an award either. Majority of the NCOs I ever had were beyond lazy and never even bothered to write up supporting documentation in order to supplement to get one. I try and keep track of all the over the top stuff I do, but every time I bring it up to my section leader, he just blows it off. Being your own advocate on this stuff doesn't always seem to work, even if you do the work for them. And since I am on permanent profile for a severe injury, I can't get points in PT for promotion. And I would rather see if I can supplement some points with awards in order to be able to compete with everyone else. So far my career is stagnant due to the above issues.
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SFC S1 Personnel Ncoic
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I wrote every single NCOER and gave them to my rater for input. &nbsp;There was some back and forth but basically my words were the ones that created the base. &nbsp;You should be actively involved in your NCOER, it's your career after-all. &nbsp;You should also provide suggested senior rater comments in the email. &nbsp;<div><br></div><div>As far as awards - no. &nbsp;</div>
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PO1 Admin
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Sorry... what is NCOER?
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1SG Shane Hansen
1SG Shane Hansen
>1 y
NCO Evaluation Report
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PO1 Admin
PO1 (Join to see)
>1 y
Got it, thanks.
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