Posted on Apr 19, 2018
Todd Starnes: Army chaplain faces punishment for following religious beliefs
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That is sad news IHMO CW5 Jack Cardwell that Army chaplain Scott Squires is going to be disciplined by the secular military authorities at Fort Bragg for refusing to include a lesbian couple in Strong Bonds, a marriage retreat sponsored by the Army based on the firmly held religious convictions of Scott Squires.
After all he rescheduled the event with a chaplain who could accommodate the lesbian couple.
[update May 22, 2018] Since I posted this many people have weighed in - generally in respectful comments.
The status quo of support for same sex marriage by the Federal government is relatively new. It was not applicable while I served [1974-2008] and it did not exist when Major of Chaplains Scott Squires went on active duty.
Federal Law offers protection for Rights of Conscience
Cited in a brief by the attorney for the accused "Section 533(b) of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) stipulating the armed forces may not "require a chaplain to perform any rite, ritual, or ceremony that is contrary to the conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs of the chaplain" and protecting chaplains from disciplinary actions in such cases."
"Protection of Rights of Conscience of Armed Forces Members and Chaplains
Sec. 533 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2013, Pub. L. No. 112-239, as amended by Sec. 532 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2014, Pub. L. No. 113-66 [10 U.S.C.A. Subt. A, Pt. II, Ch. 53, Refs & Annos]:
(a) Protection of rights of conscience.-
(1) Accommodation. Unless it could have an adverse impact on military readiness, unit cohesion, and good order and discipline, the Armed Forces shall accommodate individual expressions of belief of a member of the armed forces reflecting the sincerely held conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs of the member and, in so far as practicable, may not use such expression of belief as the basis of any adverse personnel action, discrimination, or denial of promotion, schooling, training, or assignment.
(2) Disciplinary or administrative action.--Nothing in paragraph (1) precludes disciplinary or administrative action for conduct that is proscribed by chapter 47 of title 10, United States Code (the Uniform Code of Military Justice) [10 U.S.C.A. § 801 et seq.], including actions and speech that threaten good order and discipline.
(b) Protection of chaplain decisions relating to conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs.-
No member of the Armed Forces may—
(1) require a chaplain to perform any rite, ritual, or ceremony that is contrary to the conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs of the chaplain; or
(2) discriminate or take any adverse personnel action against a chaplain, including denial of promotion, schooling, training, or assignment, on the basis of the refusal by the chaplain to comply with a requirement prohibited by paragraph (1)."
http://www.consciencelaws.org/law/laws/usa.aspx#2012
Senator Obama and POTUS Obama opposed conscience provisions for chaplains and medical personal who were opposed to being involved in induced abortions.
Thankfully conscience laws still apply in this nation.
FYI SSG (Join to see) SSG Jason Werstak SPC Kevin Ford 1stSgt Nelson Kerr
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi LTC (Join to see) Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Jeff S. CPT Jack Durish MSgt Robert C Aldi SFC Stephen King MSgt Danny Hope SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas
After all he rescheduled the event with a chaplain who could accommodate the lesbian couple.
[update May 22, 2018] Since I posted this many people have weighed in - generally in respectful comments.
The status quo of support for same sex marriage by the Federal government is relatively new. It was not applicable while I served [1974-2008] and it did not exist when Major of Chaplains Scott Squires went on active duty.
Federal Law offers protection for Rights of Conscience
Cited in a brief by the attorney for the accused "Section 533(b) of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) stipulating the armed forces may not "require a chaplain to perform any rite, ritual, or ceremony that is contrary to the conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs of the chaplain" and protecting chaplains from disciplinary actions in such cases."
"Protection of Rights of Conscience of Armed Forces Members and Chaplains
Sec. 533 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2013, Pub. L. No. 112-239, as amended by Sec. 532 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2014, Pub. L. No. 113-66 [10 U.S.C.A. Subt. A, Pt. II, Ch. 53, Refs & Annos]:
(a) Protection of rights of conscience.-
(1) Accommodation. Unless it could have an adverse impact on military readiness, unit cohesion, and good order and discipline, the Armed Forces shall accommodate individual expressions of belief of a member of the armed forces reflecting the sincerely held conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs of the member and, in so far as practicable, may not use such expression of belief as the basis of any adverse personnel action, discrimination, or denial of promotion, schooling, training, or assignment.
(2) Disciplinary or administrative action.--Nothing in paragraph (1) precludes disciplinary or administrative action for conduct that is proscribed by chapter 47 of title 10, United States Code (the Uniform Code of Military Justice) [10 U.S.C.A. § 801 et seq.], including actions and speech that threaten good order and discipline.
(b) Protection of chaplain decisions relating to conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs.-
No member of the Armed Forces may—
(1) require a chaplain to perform any rite, ritual, or ceremony that is contrary to the conscience, moral principles, or religious beliefs of the chaplain; or
(2) discriminate or take any adverse personnel action against a chaplain, including denial of promotion, schooling, training, or assignment, on the basis of the refusal by the chaplain to comply with a requirement prohibited by paragraph (1)."
http://www.consciencelaws.org/law/laws/usa.aspx#2012
Senator Obama and POTUS Obama opposed conscience provisions for chaplains and medical personal who were opposed to being involved in induced abortions.
Thankfully conscience laws still apply in this nation.
FYI SSG (Join to see) SSG Jason Werstak SPC Kevin Ford 1stSgt Nelson Kerr
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi LTC (Join to see) Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Jeff S. CPT Jack Durish MSgt Robert C Aldi SFC Stephen King MSgt Danny Hope SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas
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SPC Kevin Ford
SSG Jason Werstak - You may want to do some more reading on the subject of marriage history.
http://theweek.com/articles/475141/how-marriage-changed-over-centuries
It is a red herring, that is currently the only religious denomination that I have heard of that refuses to even minister to them.
BTW, it appears the initial article did not fully portray what happened. The event was not "rescheduled" until the couple made a stink about it and it appears the investigators believe that Squires sat on their application to attend until the deadline was past.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/army-chaplain-faces-career-ending-punishment-following-sbc-marriage-guidelines-223117/
http://theweek.com/articles/475141/how-marriage-changed-over-centuries
It is a red herring, that is currently the only religious denomination that I have heard of that refuses to even minister to them.
BTW, it appears the initial article did not fully portray what happened. The event was not "rescheduled" until the couple made a stink about it and it appears the investigators believe that Squires sat on their application to attend until the deadline was past.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/army-chaplain-faces-career-ending-punishment-following-sbc-marriage-guidelines-223117/
How marriage has changed over centuries
Critics of gay marriage see it as an affront to sacred, time-tested traditions. How has marriage been defined in the past?
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SPC Kevin Ford - I doubt that he cares about any history older than the 15th Centrality , when Churches got involved in marriage not any Cultures that are not Europeans, Marriage a only been a between a man and A woman for a short part of human history.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SSG Jason Werstak - They did not try to change it, they did change it. Marriage is a contract between to people it was very easy to change even if convincing people the change needed to be made was hard. The whole idea that who two consenting adults not related marry is none of anyone eases business seems to be too hard for some to grasp. This is a unnecessary regulation and intrusion in peoples live that was stopped, I though conservatives were for that stuff? It is funny the same groups are against it as were against interracial marriage in the 60s, and the whining after they lost is nearly identical
Religion marriage are only connected for those that choose to connect them, In the US for example the signature on the license is all that is necessary. I got married over 36 years ago in the basement of USFK HQ, no clergy was involved just a bored Korean attorney working for the 8th Army. Later because my wife wanted a formal ceremony for her family we did a fancy pagan ceremony on a rooftop, with the chickens and all. But that did not make my marriage any more real
Religion marriage are only connected for those that choose to connect them, In the US for example the signature on the license is all that is necessary. I got married over 36 years ago in the basement of USFK HQ, no clergy was involved just a bored Korean attorney working for the 8th Army. Later because my wife wanted a formal ceremony for her family we did a fancy pagan ceremony on a rooftop, with the chickens and all. But that did not make my marriage any more real
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
Christian churches started doing weddings in the 15th century and it took a couple of hundred years for that to move to the common folks. In te times of the old testimate and for ost of human history it was one man with as many women as he could afford. I guess Solomon and Abraham do not count for y ok u. Adam and eve is a silly myth and we have n o idea how early humans mated polygamy was.problY the norm. Actual getting married via a cerom I NY aware rare into the 17th century at least anything more formal than jumping the broom. Have you studied the history of marriage at all? BTW who did Cain marry?
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Here's the kicker: "Investigators also ruled the chaplain had committed discrimination by explaining to the offended soldier that his religious beliefs prevented him from participating in the retreat." This is where we are at as a country. If you disagree with how the government defines things like marriage, you are discriminating and should be punished. We should all be very scared of this. Even the liberals. For while the government is defining terms in their favor at the moment, the precedent is being set that the government gets to decide these sorts of things and then punish offenders. We are giving our government too much control and it is going to come back and bite us.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
SSG Jason Werstak - Leviticus attacked itself by being a collection of bronze age tribal taboos with outrageous punishment. I would call them barbarianism but that would be an insult to barbarians . Do yo think the rules there should be followed by sane people? There ones against gay sex are as stupid as the rules about the hair pn the o corners of your head which Jesus did not mention either. So should someone who does not wear a Hasidim hairstyle be driven out or killed? Should shaving be punishable? That was not mentioned either.
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Capt Jeff S.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. I have read the points and counterpoints and it seems that 1stSgt Nelson Kerr does not have many folks concurring with his opinion. This has gone round and round and nobody seems to be latching on to his argument that in so many words is: The Chaplain is a Southern Baptist bigot that refused to do his job of providing counseling to a gay couple because he hates gay people.
Christians don’t hate gays because they’re gay. They see gays as sinners like themselves and we are all God’s creation. You love the sinner but hate their sin and disapprove of their lifestyle because God does and even calls it an abomination.
It’s not that the chaplain didn’t want to help the gay couple; he didn’t want to violate his conscience and do something displeasing to God. In fact he DID help the couple by pointing them to another chaplain that didn’t have this apparent conflict of interest, so there was no hate shown toward the couple.
As usual, Kerr is filling up cyberspace with hyperbole and evidence of his own personal disdain for Christians.
Christians don’t hate gays because they’re gay. They see gays as sinners like themselves and we are all God’s creation. You love the sinner but hate their sin and disapprove of their lifestyle because God does and even calls it an abomination.
It’s not that the chaplain didn’t want to help the gay couple; he didn’t want to violate his conscience and do something displeasing to God. In fact he DID help the couple by pointing them to another chaplain that didn’t have this apparent conflict of interest, so there was no hate shown toward the couple.
As usual, Kerr is filling up cyberspace with hyperbole and evidence of his own personal disdain for Christians.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
as far as supprt count votes. And if you let How much supprt you have det we r mine you sense of right and wrong determine your opinion or the value of an opinion you have my pity. The Chaplains chose to break regualtions amd discrimate. He will get his day in court to decide wether he has a good enough excuse for doing so. The propertjing ti do when the uniform and the concierge disagree is to retire not to just decide that regulations are for others to obey.
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Since he rescheduled the event with a chaplain who could accommodate them what is the problem??
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
PO1 Don Gulizia - Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion if that is what you choose.
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1stSgt Nelson Kerr
PO3 John Wagner - It was funded and sponsored by the 101st Airborne as part of an official Army wide program. I would thin that that would make it an army function.
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PO3 John Wagner
1stSgt Nelson Kerr - Right on... my above comment looks like it could have used some spell checking or more attention paid to it (so who Am I! to accuse anyone of poor attention to detail. ;-)).
You're absolutely right. It is a military activity. Thanks for clarifying that.
You're absolutely right. It is a military activity. Thanks for clarifying that.
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