Posted on Oct 24, 2017
2LT Infantry Officer
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I deal with cadets a lot, and they insist they out "rank" every NCO in the army. My usual response is somewhere around the guides of "uh-huh." Can I get some clarity of this?
Posted in these groups: Thcapm08l9 ROTCEnlisted logo EnlistedGeneral of the army rank insignia Officer
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Responses: 1044
CPT Alex Lamb
5
5
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I just remember my ROTC contract saying my rank was equivilant to lower enlisted in the reserves. cant remember what specifically. but if there is a cadet throwing that shit around, it's your responsibility to respectfully tell them to fix themselves. that attitude is toxic and contagious.
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SGT Mustafa Stokely
SGT Mustafa Stokely
>1 y
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LCDR Jerry Maurer
5
5
0
I can't answer for the Army 'cause I was too junior to know anything then. But I went to Navy OCS and we got E-5 pay. Junior year Midshipmen on our submarine worked as division officers but didn't have any authority over enlisted. One of the Midshipmen just didn't get that and one day I found him duct taped to the bulkhead in the Torpedo Room; naked; covered in peanut butter. He never said who did it. :)
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MSG Lonnie Averkamp
MSG Lonnie Averkamp
6 y
Well, the crewmen the submarine obviously sensed an attitude that needed "counseling", but if he took it like a man, I have to respect him for that.
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MAJ John Douglas
MAJ John Douglas
>1 y
Sounds like the Navy version of a blanket party in the Army.
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SFC Brian Randall
5
5
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Cadets are not in the Regular Army until they commission from their respective institutes and don the 2LT bars. As a Second Lieutenant, I would not even attempt to approach an NCO with that type of rhetoric. Don't care if that 2LT is a prior service individual or participated in the Simultaneous Membership Program (SMP) as a cadet. Set them straight Specialist.
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
>1 y
FYI SFC Brian Randall
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC

Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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LTC Stephen F.
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Edited >1 y ago
2LT (Join to see) ss a USMA, West Point cadet [prior active duty service 1974-1976] we were equivalent to a rank just below Warrant Officer and above all enlisted ranks [sometimes referred to as 3rd LT. [We were subject to the UCMJ throughout out our tenure as USMA cadets [allies to USNA and USAFA as well]
In 1978 I served as a Drill Cadet [in place of a drill sergeant for a full training cycle at Fort Dix.] My prior service expereince helped me significantly. Even though I was at the same age as many trainees they demonstrated respect for me based on my respect for them and my knowldge of military tasks.
In 1979 I served as Cadet Troop Leadership Training [CTLT] in a signal battalion at Krabbenloch-Kaserne was a barracks in the Ludwigsburg district east. I served as platoon leader os acable and wire platoon for a month.

Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC

Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant

FYI SFC William Farrell PO3 Edward Riddle Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. ] LTC William Conrad CPT Daniel Cox SPC Michael Terrell LTC Kenneth Konstanzer COL George Woods MAJ Frank Ward LTC Paul Thomas MAJ Richard Simis LTC Charles SnyderSPC Lyle Montgomery SMSgt Lawrence McCarter CPT Lawrence Cable
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PO3 Edward Riddle
PO3 Edward Riddle
>1 y
Thank You Brother Steve for all this info. Being an old Navy Vet, I never gave any of this any thought so I will not even try to come up with an answer.
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PFC Infantryman
4
4
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As a cadet myself, I would never in my right mind go around flaunting my 'rank' even if it is true by technicality. We hold no authority and are in the learning phase of our military careers. Its absolutely entertaining, however, to see cadets try to pull rank on ANY NCO.
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GySgt Charles O'Connell
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4
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Maybe in the Italian navy, but I know of no scenario where someone who is essentially a "Trainee" has authority over a NCO, or enlisted member. But hey, I'm always up for a laugh, so go ahead Cadet, role the dice and give some guidance and direction to a Cpl or Sgt, see how that works out for you.
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Cadet PVT (Pre-Commission)
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4
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According to AR 600-20, yes they do. The truth is though that nobody knows this and less people care, including cadets. Unless a cadet is out of their mind they’ll usually act subordinate to NCOs. Nonetheless, if a situation as described in AR 600-20B occurs it is the cadets responsibility to become an acting officer.
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GySgt Charles O'Connell
GySgt Charles O'Connell
>1 y
Good luck with that.
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MAJ John Douglas
MAJ John Douglas
>1 y
I recommend you just let someone in the chain of command know there is a problem somewhere. Your career might last longer that way.
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
>1 y
FYI Cadet PVT (Join to see)
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [check out USN/USMC personnel regs which apply to USNA midshipmen rank
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC

Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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LCDR Joe Quartararo
4
4
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They hold the rank of e-5 for pay purposes....they hold no organizational rank so NCOs do not have to salute them and they outrank no one
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SPC Franklin McKown
4
4
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I was but a LOWLY spec 4 They weren't in my chain,and they were there to LISTEN not talk.
I told them that.they stopped talking about rank.
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LTC Stephen F.
LTC Stephen F.
>1 y
FYI SPC Franklin McKown
Per AR 600–20 • 24 July 2020 5 [USN/USMC personnel reg applies to USNA midshipmen]
Cadets rank just below WO-1 USMA, ROTC and then OCS
Table 1 –1
Grades, Army— Continued
W-2 Pay grade; Title of address: Chief/Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: CW2
W-1 Pay grade: W –1; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms.
Abbreviation: WO1
USMA Cadets; Cadet, U.S. Military Academy; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
ROTC cadet Grade: Cadet, Senior Advanced Reserve Officer’s Training Corps (ROTC); Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms./Cadet
Abbreviation: CDT
Officer Candidate School Candidates; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: OC
Warrant Officer Candidate; Pay grade: Special; Title of address: Candidate
Abbreviation: WOC

Enlisted noncommissioned officers
Sergeant Major of the Army; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Command Sergeant Major2; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major [3]; Pay grade: E –9; Title of address: Sergeant Major
First Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: First Sergeant
Master Sergeant; Pay grade: E –8; Title of address: Sergeant
Sergeant First Class; Pay grade: E –7; Title of address: Sergeant
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SPC Franklin McKown
SPC Franklin McKown
>1 y
Isn't it strange how the book isn't always used on combat arms? How often does experience trump the book in officer cadre? We did it to accomplish common tasking. The book wasn't useful at "34 Easting" when they would have halted in the sight of enemy forces, as commanded in order to maintain a phase line. I guess they wanted the cadets to meet us and see how we operated instead, I wouldn't know any more than I knew that reg.
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PO2 Hospital Corpsman
4
4
0
It’s always fun to bash Douche-bags! However, I have had positive experiences as an HM2 with Navy and USMC officer candidates. As I recall they were NROTC folks. Not Annapolis. They all seemed eager to learn, stayed within their appropriate limits as far as rank. And never acted like dicks.
However, new Navy nurses were often snotty, condescending, know it all nitwits. Especially on the Reserve side. 4 yrs of college and some Navy orientation and a few were pretty obnoxious. Especially annoying to us field Corpsman who had been around and been deployed etc. I was always respectful and never rolled my eyes in front of them. Just yessed them and moved on. Let someone else school them. Often our Chief would have a talk with them.
Two young and goofy nurses got into a pissing contest with us during our AT at Naval Hospital Philadelphia. We were taking off with my rental car to Atlantic City and they got all pissy because they “ were in charge.” And they “were responsible for “ us. I was an e5 over 10. One car was on my orders and I had a CDL and drove para transit and ambulances. I think I was 30 yrs old too. “ Yes ma’am, no ma’am, goodbye ma’am.”
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