Posted on Oct 9, 2018
How is it that most junior Soldiers claim to have never heard of Colin Powell or Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr?
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I occasionally ask Soldiers if they know who Colin Powell or Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. is. I am no longer surprised that most 18-24 year old Soldiers I asked do not know. In fact, many of them have heard about Ronald Reagan but can’t engage in conversation about him. Even sadder, most don’t know there were two Presidents George Bush. They don’t know much about daddy, and not much more about W. Call me crazy, but it seems to me that the public schools are no longer teaching history from the 1980’s forward, not spending much time showing how those eras are related and inform today’s era, or the Army isn’t really teaching any Army history. Perhaps that’s not the Army’s job, to teach Soldiers their branch heritage. But you would think Soldiers who serve in this great Army would be able to engage in a 5 minute conversation about key political and military figures of their branch, from at least Desert Storm forward. I know I’m “old” but still think it’s better for Soldiers to serve in the Army to have a sense of historical perspective, rather than just serve in a vacuum. I would think knowing one’s branch recent history would inspire and motivate. Then again, maybe not. But that’s just me.
Posted in these groups: 
American History
Persian/Arabian Gulf
Operation Desert Shield/Storm
Military Education
American History Persian/Arabian Gulf Operation Desert Shield/Storm Military Education
Posted 7 y ago
Responses: 45
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No, the schools don't teach current history and perhaps that's a good thing given the progressive /antimilitary position of many of today's educators. We should be teaching this in NCO Leadership school and Jr officer professional education. Other thoughts?
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen F. SPC Douglas Bolton SMSgt David A Asbury SGT (Join to see) MSgt David Hoffman MSgt David Hoffman Capt Christian D. Orr Brig Gen Jim Jaeger Col Joseph Lenertz Col Robert Wallace Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Maj William W. 'Bill' Price LTC Stephen Conway LTC Stephan Porter
MSgt Don Dobbs Maj Marty Hogan CMSgt (Join to see)
COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen F. SPC Douglas Bolton SMSgt David A Asbury SGT (Join to see) MSgt David Hoffman MSgt David Hoffman Capt Christian D. Orr Brig Gen Jim Jaeger Col Joseph Lenertz Col Robert Wallace Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Maj William W. 'Bill' Price LTC Stephen Conway LTC Stephan Porter
MSgt Don Dobbs Maj Marty Hogan CMSgt (Join to see)
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Nicci Eisenhauer
MSgt Don Dobbs I fear you are too, too accurate about this. I've been thinking the same thing. Not a popular viewpoint, though... so I'm glad to see someone else sees it, too.
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Capt Christian D. Orr
Nicci Eisenhauer This same kid was lacking basic knowledge about the Civil War and WWII that would’ve seemingly been common knowledge to earlier generations of Americans who paid even the remotest bit of attention in our high school history classes.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
LTC Charlie Brown in school When iwas In grade or Cranmer school as our parents called it we got a good ear full.. as I got to JR high, a little less.. in my civilian class.. I had gone to a catholic school for a couple years to bring my grades(mainly math) up.. they had the JROTC so between that and the brothers we got it hammered into us religiously. After returning home
I did my own getting into the books.
I found myself in trouble correcting the liberal teachers that twisted words to make generals out to be like ogres for awarding punishment
And the lower ofcrs and NCOs for following and passing punishment..
I told them; You civilians don’t understand how the military operates.. you need to talk to
Some knowledgeable officers and NCOs... go to a library and read up on the UCMJ It’s also there to protect the JR enlisted..not always to punish... “How do you know so much about the UCMJ young man?” I had ROTC in a military school. We even held courts martial
Proceedings.. had Legal officers visit.. those teachers didn’t like my correcting them.. the ol’ “children should be seen and not heard” .sitrep. Later in HS I had JROTC
The only classes I got any real history taught to me.. We had a world history class taught by a civilian teacher. She knew diddly squat about history, what she knew was taught from a ultra liberal perspective .. of course... she was right and the students wrong... I challenged every bad grade with help of my ROTC instructors . We were studying custer and she twisted that so bad... she gave wrong dates.. I said that was not so
During that time he’d been court-martialed and placed on leave, a type of house arrest.. he was returned to duty and sent West..
I told her her stuff together and actually learn history instead of skimming and picking what you want. They need to send you back to school or fire you ! Is’pose I was out of line.. a bit.. but I was more correct than she was.. I think I scared her.. she didn’t come in one day.. they’d hired a sub.. but she was running late.. I got my book.. we were studying The Indian wars..
her version was not correct at all..
I read hers the.n I clarified what really happened.. that’s when the sub came in (the door was in the back side of the class). I read some clarifying points her bok had not divulged.. yes our soldiers had driven them south,, but when they were falling out travises constructed and the elderly and injured were hauled by ponies..
the teacher’s book stated they were cruel to them and to walk until dead .. that teacher let me continue..
then she took over.. another teacher reported the students had taken over .. So a bunch came charging in and looking very embarrassed.. The other teacher pointed me out.. the sub defended me and told what I was doing..
the bigwig didn’t like that I was contradicting the school textbook..
5 days in-school suspension.. now how would that work with ROTC?
Not good !.... I told Commandant
My version along with the sub’s version.. He said i’d Be excused, no points lost.. the school didn’t like that, I’d Rebelled taken over a class.. they went all “snowflake”...
As it’s called now.. it’s a wonder I even got to do the Reserve sitrep in Senior year...
I did my own getting into the books.
I found myself in trouble correcting the liberal teachers that twisted words to make generals out to be like ogres for awarding punishment
And the lower ofcrs and NCOs for following and passing punishment..
I told them; You civilians don’t understand how the military operates.. you need to talk to
Some knowledgeable officers and NCOs... go to a library and read up on the UCMJ It’s also there to protect the JR enlisted..not always to punish... “How do you know so much about the UCMJ young man?” I had ROTC in a military school. We even held courts martial
Proceedings.. had Legal officers visit.. those teachers didn’t like my correcting them.. the ol’ “children should be seen and not heard” .sitrep. Later in HS I had JROTC
The only classes I got any real history taught to me.. We had a world history class taught by a civilian teacher. She knew diddly squat about history, what she knew was taught from a ultra liberal perspective .. of course... she was right and the students wrong... I challenged every bad grade with help of my ROTC instructors . We were studying custer and she twisted that so bad... she gave wrong dates.. I said that was not so
During that time he’d been court-martialed and placed on leave, a type of house arrest.. he was returned to duty and sent West..
I told her her stuff together and actually learn history instead of skimming and picking what you want. They need to send you back to school or fire you ! Is’pose I was out of line.. a bit.. but I was more correct than she was.. I think I scared her.. she didn’t come in one day.. they’d hired a sub.. but she was running late.. I got my book.. we were studying The Indian wars..
her version was not correct at all..
I read hers the.n I clarified what really happened.. that’s when the sub came in (the door was in the back side of the class). I read some clarifying points her bok had not divulged.. yes our soldiers had driven them south,, but when they were falling out travises constructed and the elderly and injured were hauled by ponies..
the teacher’s book stated they were cruel to them and to walk until dead .. that teacher let me continue..
then she took over.. another teacher reported the students had taken over .. So a bunch came charging in and looking very embarrassed.. The other teacher pointed me out.. the sub defended me and told what I was doing..
the bigwig didn’t like that I was contradicting the school textbook..
5 days in-school suspension.. now how would that work with ROTC?
Not good !.... I told Commandant
My version along with the sub’s version.. He said i’d Be excused, no points lost.. the school didn’t like that, I’d Rebelled taken over a class.. they went all “snowflake”...
As it’s called now.. it’s a wonder I even got to do the Reserve sitrep in Senior year...
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
[~991050:LCpl Donald Faucett; the kids don’t learn what happened.
Sometime embarrassment needs to be broached. Life is not without it’s embarrassments...
Sometime embarrassment needs to be broached. Life is not without it’s embarrassments...
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SFC James William Bolt [ 40 Yards ]
What is the old saying if you do not now history you will repeat it the same mistakes that was made in the past sign 40 yards
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I was in school from 1985 to 1998. There were parts of our history books that we completely skipped. We didn't hit much on the Indian Wars, the War of 1812, the Spanish-American War, the Mexican-American War, WWI, Korea, or Vietnam. Even in high school in the 90s we didn't touch much, if at all, on the 80s.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
Scary. Totally scary. Although, I can say I could REALLY use some refresher courses now that I'm old enough to put it into perspective... and maybe even use.
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Thank you my friend CH (MAJ) William Beaver for asking an intriguing question.
To be honest, I would expect that in public schools in the 1990s and early 21st century the focus in history was on popular figures. The focus on current events and figures as opposed to actual historic events and historical figures who actually affected the nation and the world has created a generation or two who is historically illiterate.
Desert Storm in 1991 was significant to those involved in that operation and Operation Desert Shield. However that short war and the no-fly zones was probably given short shrift in High School and Middle School/Junior High School. Most likely the students have learned about WWII [positive] and the Vietnam War [negative].
[Update] I expect each public High School student would have received the basics at least to understand WWII [causes, summaries, and results Marshall and MacArthur plans as a minimum] as well as the Vietnam War. Private school and home school students probably have a much better understand9ng of the causes and effects of WWII and the Vietnam war.
Thanks for mentioning me Capt Jeff S..
What do you think? COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon
To be honest, I would expect that in public schools in the 1990s and early 21st century the focus in history was on popular figures. The focus on current events and figures as opposed to actual historic events and historical figures who actually affected the nation and the world has created a generation or two who is historically illiterate.
Desert Storm in 1991 was significant to those involved in that operation and Operation Desert Shield. However that short war and the no-fly zones was probably given short shrift in High School and Middle School/Junior High School. Most likely the students have learned about WWII [positive] and the Vietnam War [negative].
[Update] I expect each public High School student would have received the basics at least to understand WWII [causes, summaries, and results Marshall and MacArthur plans as a minimum] as well as the Vietnam War. Private school and home school students probably have a much better understand9ng of the causes and effects of WWII and the Vietnam war.
Thanks for mentioning me Capt Jeff S..
What do you think? COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC (Join to see) Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Maj Marty Hogan SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Mark Halmrast Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. SGT Gregory Lawritson CPL Dave Hoover SSgt Brian Brakke 1stSgt Eugene Harless CPT Scott Sharon
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Think you may be a bit disillusioned on what they actually teach as history these days. As I posted elsewhere, Vietnam War got a whole 3 days in a 2017 AP history class. Here in Florida the entire focus of education is on passing standardized tests that focus on STEM, history is an afterthought except for the few questions known to be on the tests.
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LTC Stephen F.
Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen - I concluded above with "However that short war and the no-fly zones was probably given short shrift in High School and Middle School/Junior High School. Most likely the students have learned about WWII [positive] and the Vietnam War [negative]."
I expected you and others would realize that my response meant that WWII and the Vietnam war were studied in high school unlike Operation Desert Storm/Desert Shield which I was involved in the planning for.
Based on you comment I will expend my response, my friend.
I expected you and others would realize that my response meant that WWII and the Vietnam war were studied in high school unlike Operation Desert Storm/Desert Shield which I was involved in the planning for.
Based on you comment I will expend my response, my friend.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
LTC Stephen F. Sickening as it is to us, history just doesn't get the necessary emphasis in school these days.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
SrA John Monette Tell us what they say and tag us all! I'd love to see a copy of today's standard curriculum. Isn't that posted somewhere as public record?
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I agree with you totally, but it's just not how our education system works in 2018. All the emphasis in school is STEM and the consequences of that is very little coverage of history. Anything less than 25 years isn't even considered history but perhaps gets glossed over a bit in what passes for Civics in high school classes, but only if they are AP level classes. I don't necessarily see military history as something 18 - 24 year recruits should get during basic training, they have a hard enough time just grasping the basics of their respective services. Follow on military training is an appropriate place to introduce military heritage, but only as it relates to the particular advanced training being covered.
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SGT Tony Clifford
Sir, I must fervently disagree with on the shift in focus. STEM is barely talked about especially considering that common core teaches math in ways that are incapable with even low level math classes like trigonometry or algebra. What they did do, is replace civics and history with propaganda called social studies. You're average American has no concept of the mechanisms of our government because they've never been taught it. Additionally, most people are extremely lazy and have never read important founding documents like the constitution or the federalist papers. I guarantee that if you were to ask 50 people ages 18-30, they would not even know what the federalist papers ever are.
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When I went through Marine Corps boot camp in 1969, there was a lot of focus on the history and traditions of the Corps.....it really made you want to step up and do your part. I don't know if they still focus on it in today's training criteria. I agree with you, it does a lot to inspire and motivate.....it should be part of training for all branches.
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I was a junior soldier. And not only know of both of them I got to meet Colin Powell once at a speaking engagement. Then again I was the educated, salty, and older soldier among my peers. So that is probably why.
By the time I was on my way out, I was working with soldiers who didn't even know who the president was. Even though his picture is on the wall of every military outpost I have ever been to, as well as key elements of the chain of command.
By the time I was on my way out, I was working with soldiers who didn't even know who the president was. Even though his picture is on the wall of every military outpost I have ever been to, as well as key elements of the chain of command.
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Nicci Eisenhauer
Soldiers who didn't know who the President was?!? Goodness, that's one of the questions they ask Alzheimer's patients to guage salience. Fully cognitively functioning kids didn't know?!
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History in schools is twisted into the version of reality that teachers want to present. They don't like Storming' Norman, Colin Powell and Operations Desert Shield/Storm/Calm/Iraqi Freedom or Enduring Freedom. There are kids in school not taught about 9/11. It's nuts. But once they join the USA, we need to teach them the realities of life - surviving it, combat, TTPs and yes, the true unvarnished history of this great nation (even the bad parts)
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That's because they no longer teach history in grade school, middle school or high school. It's all called "Social Studies" and unless you are majoring in history in college, you don't have to take a history course.
It's a shame that people no longer are required to take history, government, or civics to graduate high school in the US. Those classes should be mandatory IMO along with math, science, and English. So that people can actually write and create a resume and get a job for instance!
It's a shame that people no longer are required to take history, government, or civics to graduate high school in the US. Those classes should be mandatory IMO along with math, science, and English. So that people can actually write and create a resume and get a job for instance!
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Well, there are still some high school AP history classes, but they are only for students in college prep, and only because colleges require xx amount of history for admission. The non college bound student most likely has never had a history class, and certainly not anything that includes military history............And where does the military draw it's recruits from?
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Nicci Eisenhauer
Civics ESPECIALLY! We've totally lost it there! Even when I was in school -- no civics.
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it is a dilemma not only felt in the services, unfortunately. It seems today, History in general is foregone. I don't have a clue what they teach any longer, my children get a second schooling at home, as it seems the system has changed to a point where its more important to teach about Trans-gender, than actual historical events. I was desert storm/shield, and its sad to never hear of the commanding generals of that time any longer. My mother met and had her picture taken with General Schwarzkopf, she prizes it to this day. That was shortly after my return. I wish too, schools and the military would teach more about these great leaders.
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