Posted on Jul 1, 2014
What constitutes being "old school" in the military?
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I'm hearing/reading people saying "I'm old school, therefore..." So out of curiosity's sake, where is that ever-moving line?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 1808
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I think the line is clearly defined, but hard to explain. In an age of political correctness, those who are "old school" don't get caught in the trap of holding their tongue at the risk of hurting people’s oversensitive natures or tendencies. Sometimes, in an effort to provide “stick and rudder” to a person in need, a feeling or 2 needs to be hurt.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
Yes I have seen that on here else where. No matter like I said no matter how frustrated I have gotten with Command element while I was in, or with certain V.A. personnel and how I wish to I could. I would never speak out loud. That in itself gives you label for live that a Veteran doesn't need to carry with them. The thing is everyone handles the stresses differently. So yeah maybe you doesn't seem to different and I truly get that, but others it might be entire ball game. There are reason why Special Operation units make you go and see shrinks the regular basis, same should be done for any unit that is deploy on any regularity to build a baseline. So when a trooper say they have issue, they go back against their baseline profile and use that to determine disability on mental issues. Yes I hear Jinger Jarrett, you have to want the help in order to get it. I graduate from LSSU in 2011 with 3.496 GPA with BS degree in Computer Science. You know like I said, I am 44 didn't realize I had Asperger's until my son was 7 and was diagnosed. Then I got my testing done, he now 9, and I have ADHD which most Asperger's cases have slight case to begin with, if I had been tested before I went into the Army for those I would been denied to joined. Or I would gone with different MOS, not Airborne Infantry (11B1P). My family never went camping, did go out hunting. My father was cross-dresser, so I didn't have gf in high school, and didn't really active seek one out while in the military. So the Army was way to save up for College, see the world, and get away from home. After I broke my ankle, it became nightmare, if I had been told my leg was slightly shorter, and add lift to my right boot, I probably would fixed the problems I was having wearing boots after I came off profile. I wouldn't have to be questioned why I wasn't dating, I wasn't gay, just still uncomfortable with female at that point of life, when I did try I mostly found gold diggers, so I always little more shy going out to find another one. Shrug. Yes, it true only 5% of patients will ask their doctor questions. I fall in that 95%. Yet, at times it knowing the questions to ask, at the time I listening to bunch bad advice from everyone back in company but then again being 19 and E-2. You want to believe that the people above wouldn't steer wrong, Asperger's showing through there. Yes, when it comes to meds, I do ask about the nasty suicide or death side effect I want know about, anything else in annoyance. So I sit on the toilet for bit, or have headache. After eating MREs and suffering from migraines big flipping deal. Or finding out 36 years you are very allergies to 2nd hand smoke after your father-in-law stops smoking for the second time. First time in my life I hadn't been living or working with smokers and always growing up thought I had seasonal allergies, and after all that time it 2nd hand smoke kicking my butt, it also hide lot of things that I didn't realize were happen to my body too.
No I don't think the VA is the only solution, but it should be part of the solution as one seeks help. It is why I am seeing out side source for depression before I going to the VA clinic, to many bad memories of what happen while I was in military I have work out for myself, before I can go back see a VA provider on regular basis for the issues. That totally on me, I get that.
Another thing too many people are afraid to talk to their providers about what is working in treatment and what isn't working. I mean if it not truly working, stop doing it. If it was working, and no longer working, stop it for a while. Communication with all the providers is key, and you are the lowest common denominator in keeping everyone inform in what is working and what isn't working.
About all the pissed off Vets, all seem to have one thing in common. They seem to think they are getting the raw deal from the V.A. Once the entire V.A. as an Organization trains everyone who works form them regardless if they are direct hire or a contractor to treat every Veteran with the utmost respect and remember these people are the reason you have this job. We will continue to have angry Vets. What is gets a Veteran even madder is when the V.A. representative who treating them like 2nd class citizen (hey I had enough of that while I was in the uniform, I don't need now I am out, I served my time) is that the representative who is talking to you is Veteran themselves. That in it own right is truly sad, I know everyone has bad day, but as ex-service member working at the V.A. you should realize the person who talking to you isn't looking for the spit and polish. They are looking for help with issues, and answers.
No I don't think the VA is the only solution, but it should be part of the solution as one seeks help. It is why I am seeing out side source for depression before I going to the VA clinic, to many bad memories of what happen while I was in military I have work out for myself, before I can go back see a VA provider on regular basis for the issues. That totally on me, I get that.
Another thing too many people are afraid to talk to their providers about what is working in treatment and what isn't working. I mean if it not truly working, stop doing it. If it was working, and no longer working, stop it for a while. Communication with all the providers is key, and you are the lowest common denominator in keeping everyone inform in what is working and what isn't working.
About all the pissed off Vets, all seem to have one thing in common. They seem to think they are getting the raw deal from the V.A. Once the entire V.A. as an Organization trains everyone who works form them regardless if they are direct hire or a contractor to treat every Veteran with the utmost respect and remember these people are the reason you have this job. We will continue to have angry Vets. What is gets a Veteran even madder is when the V.A. representative who treating them like 2nd class citizen (hey I had enough of that while I was in the uniform, I don't need now I am out, I served my time) is that the representative who is talking to you is Veteran themselves. That in it own right is truly sad, I know everyone has bad day, but as ex-service member working at the V.A. you should realize the person who talking to you isn't looking for the spit and polish. They are looking for help with issues, and answers.
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1LT William Clardy
What do you think the "disability" in "disability compensation" means, SPC Steve Irvine?
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1LT William Clardy
It's really very simple, SPC Steve Irvine.
Disability compensation is compensation for some level of disability -- not pain or suffering, but the actual, measured reduction in your physical ability to support and care for yourself.
How frequently people game the system doesn't change the original (legally defined) purpose of the payments. Nor does the fact that well-intentioned folks also encourage veterans to file claims "just in case."
I realize that I come across as a hard-a** about it, but that's because I know the money available for compensation is not unlimited, so every inflated or fraudulent claim that gets approved is diverting money from the folks for whom it was intended.
Disability compensation is compensation for some level of disability -- not pain or suffering, but the actual, measured reduction in your physical ability to support and care for yourself.
How frequently people game the system doesn't change the original (legally defined) purpose of the payments. Nor does the fact that well-intentioned folks also encourage veterans to file claims "just in case."
I realize that I come across as a hard-a** about it, but that's because I know the money available for compensation is not unlimited, so every inflated or fraudulent claim that gets approved is diverting money from the folks for whom it was intended.
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"Old School" is a variable rather than a constant; a very relative term. I would say that having entered service in 1983 and retiring in 2006 I'm more 'old school' than most (but not ALL) on this site.
To add to the comment by SGT (Join to see) who discussed doing PT without a reflective belt as old school. I would say if you remember the wonderful banana suit, you are old school!
To add to the comment by SGT (Join to see) who discussed doing PT without a reflective belt as old school. I would say if you remember the wonderful banana suit, you are old school!
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CPL Bryan Pegg
Yes wearing the banana suits for PT makes you old school. We were still using them in 1989 at Ft Leonardwood. We never wore the reversible yellow/black t-shirt during the summer. Those things were hot.
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SGT Francis Abram
If you are “Old School “ what am I?
I volunteered Airborne unassigned 11/27/ 1964 MP school Ft Gordon and recruited by Special Forces. Discharged 11/24/1967 from Co B 6th Special Forces Group Special Warfare Center Ft Bragg, NC as Senior SF Medical Sgt 91B4S.
Honor the Dead by serving the Living,
Sgt F Abram
I volunteered Airborne unassigned 11/27/ 1964 MP school Ft Gordon and recruited by Special Forces. Discharged 11/24/1967 from Co B 6th Special Forces Group Special Warfare Center Ft Bragg, NC as Senior SF Medical Sgt 91B4S.
Honor the Dead by serving the Living,
Sgt F Abram
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Still had 38 cal revolvers and Colt 45 ACP's in our armory no M9 or M11.
Had C-Rats before there was MRE's
Did PT in our combat boots and wore our cammi pants (no BDU yet) and t-shirt.
Had M35 deuce and a half's, M561 gamma goats and M38 willys jeep's
Had black combat boots and spit shined.
Used starch on our cammies and cover.
Every one carried a half of a shelter in their gear.
Had ALICE packs (All-Purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment)
It was a M-16A1 or M16A2
Had C-Rats before there was MRE's
Did PT in our combat boots and wore our cammi pants (no BDU yet) and t-shirt.
Had M35 deuce and a half's, M561 gamma goats and M38 willys jeep's
Had black combat boots and spit shined.
Used starch on our cammies and cover.
Every one carried a half of a shelter in their gear.
Had ALICE packs (All-Purpose Lightweight Individual Carrying Equipment)
It was a M-16A1 or M16A2
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SPC Paul Eiden
Carried the M1 till shortly getting out in Aug of 1965 and then were issued the new M14's... The 3 years was a life changing experience for me and should be learned by all.
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Well for me, it was being trained by the Vietnam Soldiers of the 60s, 70s and the Soldiers of the 1980s. Things in my era were a lot different, because technology and equipment were a lot different from the present 2014. It was about standards and discipline back then- I tell you worked hard for your pay. Mines was $490 a month take home pay-getting paid out the ole pay-cage back in 1989 as a private from the pay Officer/Sergeant (with a salute). There was not a lot of programs to advocate Soldiers issues. The chain of command took it in their hands and handle it their way (WALL TO WALL COUNSELING). To me the law was my NCO support channel. " What was done behind closed doors, stayed behind closed doors. You barely talked to the 1SG/CO and when you did, you was shaking in them combat boots. That was the way they held checks and balances back in the late 80s and early 90s.
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SPC Paul Eiden
When enlisted in 1962 PVT E-1 was $72 a month and went to $77 for PVT E-3 and the to $465 for Spc 4 when married. As stated above through basic and AIT did not talk to !st SGT or CO. The next 3 years only talked to CO twice. Had great respect for authority.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SPC Paul Eiden - ROGER THAT: THAT'S OLE SCHOOL:
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SSG Michael Noll Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Cpl Vic Burk SGT Charlie Lee] Sgt (Join to see) PV2 Larry Sellnow SPC Gary C. SPC (Join to see) Amn Dale Preisach SGT Ruben Lozada 1SG Patrick Burke PO2 Marco Monsalve Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Kim Patterson SPC Robert Coventry SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth CPT Richard Trione SFC Ralph E Kelley
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SSG Michael Noll Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Cpl Vic Burk SGT Charlie Lee] Sgt (Join to see) PV2 Larry Sellnow SPC Gary C. SPC (Join to see) Amn Dale Preisach SGT Ruben Lozada 1SG Patrick Burke PO2 Marco Monsalve Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Kim Patterson SPC Robert Coventry SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth CPT Richard Trione SFC Ralph E Kelley
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth - ROGER THAT BROTHER COWBOY: NO LIP!!!
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SSG Michael Noll Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Cpl Vic Burk SGT Charlie Lee] Sgt (Join to see) PV2 Larry Sellnow SPC Gary C. SPC (Join to see) Amn Dale Preisach SGT Ruben Lozada 1SG Patrick Burke PO2 Marco Monsalve Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Kim Patterson SPC Robert Coventry CPT Richard Trione SFC Ralph E Kelley SGT Gerald “Jerry” Harrell
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SSG Michael Noll Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Cpl Vic Burk SGT Charlie Lee] Sgt (Join to see) PV2 Larry Sellnow SPC Gary C. SPC (Join to see) Amn Dale Preisach SGT Ruben Lozada 1SG Patrick Burke PO2 Marco Monsalve Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Kim Patterson SPC Robert Coventry CPT Richard Trione SFC Ralph E Kelley SGT Gerald “Jerry” Harrell
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
MSG John Wirts - GOODNESS GRACIOUS BROTHER JOHN.
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SSG Michael Noll Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Cpl Vic Burk SGT Charlie Lee] Sgt (Join to see) PV2 Larry Sellnow SPC Gary C. SPC (Join to see) Amn Dale Preisach SGT Ruben Lozada 1SG Patrick Burke PO2 Marco Monsalve Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Kim Patterson SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth CPT Richard Trione SFC Ralph E Kelley SGT Gerald “Jerry” Harrell
PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SSG Michael Noll Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen Cpl Vic Burk SGT Charlie Lee] Sgt (Join to see) PV2 Larry Sellnow SPC Gary C. SPC (Join to see) Amn Dale Preisach SGT Ruben Lozada 1SG Patrick Burke PO2 Marco Monsalve Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Kim Patterson SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth CPT Richard Trione SFC Ralph E Kelley SGT Gerald “Jerry” Harrell
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If you ever wore an LBE
,rode in a deuce and half,
transported in a cattle car,
never wore a PT belt because they didn't exist,
ate MRE's,
had do everything manually in a tank not have a computer do it for you,
spit shined your boots and shoes,
pressed your uniform
,Have an MOS that is no longer in use
,standard uniform was BDUs
Trained at a station like Ft. Knox that no longer used for the training that you got
,rode in a deuce and half,
transported in a cattle car,
never wore a PT belt because they didn't exist,
ate MRE's,
had do everything manually in a tank not have a computer do it for you,
spit shined your boots and shoes,
pressed your uniform
,Have an MOS that is no longer in use
,standard uniform was BDUs
Trained at a station like Ft. Knox that no longer used for the training that you got
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SSG Thomas DeBlaay
MSG John Wirts - As soon as I saw 30-40 Krag I fought the urge to be a smart-ass, but, from San Juan hill to after Vietnam, You are the oldest, old school, troop here. Sorry, it seemed like low-hanging fruit.
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SPC Tony Blanton
My MOS is still relevant but my entire batallion has been re-purposed. My company no longer exists and I google earth my old unit and our batallion's barracks and two batallions (1st Med and 1st S&T) on either side of us have been razed.
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Yes to all! I have also:
Fired a 1911 that rattled when shook, and used mogas as paint thinner.
Fired a 1911 that rattled when shook, and used mogas as paint thinner.
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SGT Paul Elliot
SGT Richard Kroemer - Mine was a Remington-Rand, rattled a bit, then the sear broke. That was exciting. The last 4 rounds went Brrrrp!
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SGT (Join to see)
CW5 Sam R. Baker - I have former students I taught over twenty years ago who are Chief Warrant Officers!
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I've told this one before, but here goes...
Tun Tavern, 1775
The first Marine recruiting station was set up (in a bar of course)
Two young men approach Captain Nichols and within moments decide to volunteer.
Capt Nichols asks 2 screening questions:
1. Do you have a rifle? Which was answere "Yes"
2. Do you have a knife? Again, the answer is "Yes"
Congratulations, have a seat at the bar. Stand by to stand by.
This goes on all day and into the evening.
The first 2 recruits, who have been watching all day, observe something odd....
A young man approaches and is asked:
1. Do you have a rifle? Answer is "Yes"
2. Do you have a knife? The young man nervously answers "Sorry, but no".
Capt Nicholas says "Well, we will have to issue you one."
Upon hearing this, the first recruit turns to the second and says..
"Back in the Old Corps we had to bring our own knives."
Tun Tavern, 1775
The first Marine recruiting station was set up (in a bar of course)
Two young men approach Captain Nichols and within moments decide to volunteer.
Capt Nichols asks 2 screening questions:
1. Do you have a rifle? Which was answere "Yes"
2. Do you have a knife? Again, the answer is "Yes"
Congratulations, have a seat at the bar. Stand by to stand by.
This goes on all day and into the evening.
The first 2 recruits, who have been watching all day, observe something odd....
A young man approaches and is asked:
1. Do you have a rifle? Answer is "Yes"
2. Do you have a knife? The young man nervously answers "Sorry, but no".
Capt Nicholas says "Well, we will have to issue you one."
Upon hearing this, the first recruit turns to the second and says..
"Back in the Old Corps we had to bring our own knives."
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CPT Richard Riley i am so old school that Rations were in Roman Numerals and the expiration was; Eat By Lunch!! Col (Join to see) PO2 Ed C.
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SGM Willie Sanderson
Amen brother and I was a road guard for the three wise men so I was told by my young NCOs.
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Old school is a relative term SSG Selwyn Bodley. In this nation French and Indian War veterans told young Revolutionary War soldiers that the former were old school, similarly veterans of the War of 1812, the 1846 Mexican American war and the Seminole Indian wars told young Civil War soldiers in both sides that the newbies were not old school. Great war veterans told WWII draftees that the former were old school, etc.
This discussion was started before I joined RallyPoint but I was tagged so I am respond now.
I have served in uniform since Gerald Ford was President, through Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, and exited before Barrack Obama was President. [Thank you LTC Bink Romanick for reminding me that you served through six Presidents.
1. When I enlisted in November 1974, the Drill Sergeants and later the soldiers I served with sometimes mentioned Old School - those who were used the M-14 rifle were prone to tell us as were using the M-16 that they were old school.
2. We shined our black combat boots and low quarters in the 1970s. I remember thinking that Corfram low quarters were definitely new school.
3. We did PT in combat boots while wearing OD green fatigues in the 1970s. That was old school. Those who came later started out in sweats and running shoes for PT.
4. M-151 jeep, M113 APC, M-60 Tank, M-54 5-ton truck, M-51 dump truck, M-88 tank retriever were old school IMHO :-)
5. Smoke breaks were those who didn't smoke had to work through the break was old school. :-)
6. Ironed and starched fatigue uniforms were old school. :-)
7. Encouragement to drink alcohol and eat fatty foods with no concern for cholesterol, etc. was old school. :-) Copying some from my friend [SPC Charles Brown]
8. Doing day and night land navigation exercise without any type of GPS.
9. Pumping MOGAS and using it in vehicles and fuel driven tools such as chain saws
10 Blanket parties with OD green blankets.
I for one am glad Old School is indeed old and in many ways it is good it has been replaced :-)
Images: 1982 Hohenfels 1LT Stephen Ford; 1975-03 Ft Leonard Wood, MO - AIT B-2-4 PVT Steve Ford smoking in formation at rest; Grafenwöhr August 1981 - Success on Range 35 Platoon Live Fire by 2nd PLT 1-52 IN – Left to right facing camera Correa, 2LT Ford, Ballinger, SGT Collie, Shreves - (2 of 5); Grafenwöhr August 1981 – Combat Support Company, 1-52 IN – M901 ITV Swimming
FYI LTC Stephen C. MSgt (Join to see) SFC William Farrell PO3 Edward Riddle SGM Mikel Dawson SGM Gerald Fife SSG Selwyn Bodley SPC (Join to see) GySgt Jack Wallace SFC William Swartz Jr CW3 Kevin Storm SSG John Erny MSG John Wirts
This discussion was started before I joined RallyPoint but I was tagged so I am respond now.
I have served in uniform since Gerald Ford was President, through Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, and exited before Barrack Obama was President. [Thank you LTC Bink Romanick for reminding me that you served through six Presidents.
1. When I enlisted in November 1974, the Drill Sergeants and later the soldiers I served with sometimes mentioned Old School - those who were used the M-14 rifle were prone to tell us as were using the M-16 that they were old school.
2. We shined our black combat boots and low quarters in the 1970s. I remember thinking that Corfram low quarters were definitely new school.
3. We did PT in combat boots while wearing OD green fatigues in the 1970s. That was old school. Those who came later started out in sweats and running shoes for PT.
4. M-151 jeep, M113 APC, M-60 Tank, M-54 5-ton truck, M-51 dump truck, M-88 tank retriever were old school IMHO :-)
5. Smoke breaks were those who didn't smoke had to work through the break was old school. :-)
6. Ironed and starched fatigue uniforms were old school. :-)
7. Encouragement to drink alcohol and eat fatty foods with no concern for cholesterol, etc. was old school. :-) Copying some from my friend [SPC Charles Brown]
8. Doing day and night land navigation exercise without any type of GPS.
9. Pumping MOGAS and using it in vehicles and fuel driven tools such as chain saws
10 Blanket parties with OD green blankets.
I for one am glad Old School is indeed old and in many ways it is good it has been replaced :-)
Images: 1982 Hohenfels 1LT Stephen Ford; 1975-03 Ft Leonard Wood, MO - AIT B-2-4 PVT Steve Ford smoking in formation at rest; Grafenwöhr August 1981 - Success on Range 35 Platoon Live Fire by 2nd PLT 1-52 IN – Left to right facing camera Correa, 2LT Ford, Ballinger, SGT Collie, Shreves - (2 of 5); Grafenwöhr August 1981 – Combat Support Company, 1-52 IN – M901 ITV Swimming
FYI LTC Stephen C. MSgt (Join to see) SFC William Farrell PO3 Edward Riddle SGM Mikel Dawson SGM Gerald Fife SSG Selwyn Bodley SPC (Join to see) GySgt Jack Wallace SFC William Swartz Jr CW3 Kevin Storm SSG John Erny MSG John Wirts
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LTC Stephen F.
SP5 Christine Conley - This discussion was posted the year before I joined RallyPoint. Somebody tagged me 5 days ago so I responded. :-)
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CPT William Jones
W was stationed in Germany with 4 yrs service when Reforger 1 was conducted. Supported them with my class 60 float bridge
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