Posted on May 16, 2022
Why does the US Army persist with the rank of SP4?
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Responses: 163
It think the question isn't why their are still spec 4s, but instead why their are not still spec 5-9s. NCOs are leaders. Not everyone has the interest or quite frankly the capability to be a good leader. We are dealing with an increasingly technical needs in warfighting. In order to attract and keep the talent we need, we need to recognize that the need to keep senior technical people. This means they need to achieve higher ranks as they get more knowledgeable (including higher pay); either by higher enlisted ranks or by warrant officers (or more likely a by lot more of both).
A mistake a lot of organizations make is moving their best technical people to management when they don't have the capability for it or interest in it. Without an alternate career path, they just leave those organizations or sit unhappily when they reach their level of management incompetence.
I understand the question to some extent in the context of combat arms MOSes but as we watch Russia in Ukraine play out we understand what happens when we ignore the other parts of the force we need.
A mistake a lot of organizations make is moving their best technical people to management when they don't have the capability for it or interest in it. Without an alternate career path, they just leave those organizations or sit unhappily when they reach their level of management incompetence.
I understand the question to some extent in the context of combat arms MOSes but as we watch Russia in Ukraine play out we understand what happens when we ignore the other parts of the force we need.
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SPC Michael Terrell
SSgt Former18thASMKadena83 Atkinson - I was 26T20. I left active duty after two years, because I got no respect, or cooperation to let me do my job. A lazy E-8 lifer who couldn't figure out how to schedule three people to provide seven day a week operation of an AFRTS TV station, so you worked two days, got three off, worked two more. The next week, you just worked the three days. This just used two of us, while the third did nothing . My MOS was Depot level, so I not only ran the station 50% of the time, I spent additional time keeping the station running. I averaged 140 hours, every two weeks yet that ass would volunteer me for additional duty on /my days off'.
I also had 'rank' try to tell me how to do my job, when they had never been to a TV station, let alone maintain one. The Base Information Officer informed me that I needed to 'polish the hand tools, and paint the inside of the tool cabinet'. I was to 'Keep the studio floor so shiny' that he could see his ugly face which wasn't allowed per our SOP.
I told him where to go when he tried to confiscate the equipment manuals which would only be issued 'if and when he deemed it necessary'. I told him that if he touched the, that I would break his fingernails all the way to his elbows, and ordered him to leave the restricted area which was off limits to everyone but the operator on duty. He called me a 'Insubordinate SOB', and called our General. He needed a mew ass when the General finished, and was told to stay out of my way.
I also had 'rank' try to tell me how to do my job, when they had never been to a TV station, let alone maintain one. The Base Information Officer informed me that I needed to 'polish the hand tools, and paint the inside of the tool cabinet'. I was to 'Keep the studio floor so shiny' that he could see his ugly face which wasn't allowed per our SOP.
I told him where to go when he tried to confiscate the equipment manuals which would only be issued 'if and when he deemed it necessary'. I told him that if he touched the, that I would break his fingernails all the way to his elbows, and ordered him to leave the restricted area which was off limits to everyone but the operator on duty. He called me a 'Insubordinate SOB', and called our General. He needed a mew ass when the General finished, and was told to stay out of my way.
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SP5 Wick Humble
I was SPC 5,and was offered SPC 6 to re-up in 1970; but I wanted to return to college and got a little 'early out'. With a BA, I had gotten a CAS (civilian acquired skill) MOS of 81E20, which they were going to uprate to E30, the section SFC said. Getting drafted (didn't have a bone spur until I was 75!) wasn't too lucky, but that assignment sure was! A lot of GI-draftees coughed up another enlistment year to get it, and still wound up in 'Nam.
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SP5 Wick Humble
In modern parlance, I guess sergeants are leaders, but... where were all the hard-five and above at our base Ft. Sam, when NCO roles were needed? I pulled Company CQ, Asst. Staff Duty NCO, Sgt of the Guard, and other mostly over-nite jobs numerous times in my six months as SPC-5. We were the pool of after-hours does and goers when all the officers and senior NCO's (and MFSS had a LOT!) were in the old rack!
What a bring down it was for the SPC-4's on guard duty when it was discovered that the Army had not bothered to equip SPC-5 Humble, J., with a GI driver's license! Those nights I was chauffeured! A little harder to catch a few winks, but... Only 55-years ago...
What a bring down it was for the SPC-4's on guard duty when it was discovered that the Army had not bothered to equip SPC-5 Humble, J., with a GI driver's license! Those nights I was chauffeured! A little harder to catch a few winks, but... Only 55-years ago...
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SPC Edward Abney
Spot on, Specialist Ford! There is a critical need for retention of technical talent in the Army, and, insisting that enlisted in these MOS must go through all the requirements to become a NCO to progress up the ladder is pushing these enlisted out of the Army and into the civilian sector. Bring back the Specialist ranks, ASAP!
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It's because in the Army an E4 is not a team leader. An E5 is a team leader, E4 is a pay grade that is a natural progression from E1. That means that an E1 and E4 can hold the same exact position by grade and MTOE. Obviously you can't just make everyone a corporal once they make two years in service. It's kind of like why do we have 2LTs and 1LTs?
Why don't we get rid of that and make people earn E4 in the Army? Probably because E3s don't make anything, not that E4s make much more. An E3 with three years is making under $30,000 a year. It's hard to reenlist someone who feels broke and doesn't see their selves getting promoted.
Why don't we get rid of that and make people earn E4 in the Army? Probably because E3s don't make anything, not that E4s make much more. An E3 with three years is making under $30,000 a year. It's hard to reenlist someone who feels broke and doesn't see their selves getting promoted.
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SFC Patrick Tipton
SGT Robert Wager Correct you are. Hardest promotion to get is Corporal. Hardest tangible object for a Corporal to get...anyone....a unit coin. The Army and local leadership is the most stingy with those to things.
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SPC David OLin
There was to much Old buddy things happening to get a promotion to E-5 for me.
If you didn't have the right NCO that liked you forget about being promoted.
So, I like the Air Force which my son is in, which you take a test to get promoted up to E-6. No board until after that.
If you didn't have the right NCO that liked you forget about being promoted.
So, I like the Air Force which my son is in, which you take a test to get promoted up to E-6. No board until after that.
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SP5 Wick Humble
Only two things I was proud of 'accomplishing' in the Army: easily qualifying as Expert on the M-14, and making SPC 5 in the minimum amount of time in grade/time in service. The money helped (still under $300/mo in 1970) but also I got to avoid the chow line at the EM Mess, and eat in the officers -- which had table cloths and sometimes flowers on the table! Funny, it's almost impossible to find 'subdued' SPC 5 rank patches now. So long ago... !
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SPC Edward Abney
I totally disagree SFC! You don't seem to realize that you are messing with the E4 Mafia! Kidding aside, the Army should split off the war fighters, and the technicals, into two different lanes of rank progression. NCO's belong in combat organizations, Specialists in technical organizations. The Army is bleeding technical talent by forcing all to move up the NCO ladder.
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I'm totally for bringing back the Technical Ranks. The Army has a glaring blind spot in its philosophy toward NCO's. I'm not sure how something so obvious can be so blatantly overlooked, but the Army somehow automatically lumps together "Leader" and "Leadership". Those two words are related, but not mutually exclusive, nor does one automatically lead to the other.
A Leader is such, based on position, rank, social hierarchy, or some other form of placement. Leadership has many qualities, some subtle, some pretty obvious, but it's one of those things, that "you know it when you see it"... you either have it, or you learn it, but It should not be summarily attached to a rank, and it's it's reason why the NCO Corp struggles at times. Some guys are great worker bee's that there is nothing wrong with that. Placing them in a position they clearly have no desire for, nor the qualities to embrace it does every Soldier a disservice.
*rant complete
A Leader is such, based on position, rank, social hierarchy, or some other form of placement. Leadership has many qualities, some subtle, some pretty obvious, but it's one of those things, that "you know it when you see it"... you either have it, or you learn it, but It should not be summarily attached to a rank, and it's it's reason why the NCO Corp struggles at times. Some guys are great worker bee's that there is nothing wrong with that. Placing them in a position they clearly have no desire for, nor the qualities to embrace it does every Soldier a disservice.
*rant complete
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SPC Michael Terrell
I tested out of the Army's hardest Electronics school in 1972, while in Basic. I was told that no one had ever done it, and never would. I scored over 93%. I was assigned to a TV station at Ft. Greely, with two men who had gone through that school. They had no hands on experience, but I had seven years, at just 20 years old. One of the two was a useless alcoholic, while the other struggled to do actual troubleshooting. I'm still in contact with him, and he still thanks me for teaching him mre than the Army school, or any other job that he's had in thee 50 years.
I was taught 'Logical troubleshooting' starting at 13 years old. Quickly find the real problem, and fix it properly the first time. Avoid temporary fixes, whenever possible.
The Station Manager wanted me court martialed 'for destruction of Government property' after I built a replacement TV tuner for a piece of test equipment. The OEM part was NLA, and a custom built part would cost more than the equipment was worth. By the time the dust settled, I was promoted to SP4, at just 18 months. I've newer played nicely with fools.
I was taught 'Logical troubleshooting' starting at 13 years old. Quickly find the real problem, and fix it properly the first time. Avoid temporary fixes, whenever possible.
The Station Manager wanted me court martialed 'for destruction of Government property' after I built a replacement TV tuner for a piece of test equipment. The OEM part was NLA, and a custom built part would cost more than the equipment was worth. By the time the dust settled, I was promoted to SP4, at just 18 months. I've newer played nicely with fools.
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SPC David OLin
SGT (Join to see) - Cpl. should be removed altogether or SP4 should be removed. If the goal is to be an NCO then keep Cpl.
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CPT Bob Mason
SGT (Join to see) - I was on active duty in the early70’s when up-or-out was thrust on us. I personally knew an E-6 and an E-7 who loved their jobs and were exceptionally effective at it who left the Army becsuse they did not want the higher rank and responsibilities.
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SP5 Wick Humble
On Okinawa in X Army, my dad wore three over one rocker, plus a 'T', but when promoted after the Japanese surrender, his patch was changed to three over two rockers, but was called "Technical Sergeant" as a rank title. Neither of these was 'Staff' or 'Sergeant First Class". Though he was in the fighting, he was assigned to a HQ Company in the Signal Corps. He died in 1958 -- as a result of a pack-a-day habit on unfiltered Lucky Strikes he'd picked up on Okie -- so I can't ask him to decipher it. Still have his Ike Jacket.
Better question: why is a low private rank E-3 called 'First Class' but the aforementioned senior rank E-7 called 'First Class' also? Quirky! I've had to try to explain that to a lot of civilian types. And then there are the Navy rank/rating!!
I was told in 1969 that the Army had Spec 4's just because they didn't want too many Corporals! BTW, lots of SP5's in 'Nam had command roles in combat, and never got 'hard stripes.' I was offered 'hard five' at Ft. Sam if I'd be barracks sergeant, however. Too close to ETS!
Better question: why is a low private rank E-3 called 'First Class' but the aforementioned senior rank E-7 called 'First Class' also? Quirky! I've had to try to explain that to a lot of civilian types. And then there are the Navy rank/rating!!
I was told in 1969 that the Army had Spec 4's just because they didn't want too many Corporals! BTW, lots of SP5's in 'Nam had command roles in combat, and never got 'hard stripes.' I was offered 'hard five' at Ft. Sam if I'd be barracks sergeant, however. Too close to ETS!
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Bring back SP4-SP9. Leave troop pushing to the CPLs - CSMs. With the technological aspect of warfighting growing ever more complex and specialized, there is plenty of room for a fourth career track. If you can't stand the idea of SP9 rank on the current pinks and greens, then go back to 1943 and create them as Technician grades. The point is, these folks need to be retained and recognized accordingly. Makes total sense to me. SP and Tech ranks didn't destroy the army then and they won't now. The fact that it would probably rub a lot of CSMs the wrong way is really immaterial.
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MAJ (Join to see)
That would make sense if the Army was the same size. Unfortunately the Army keeps downsizing and hiring DACs and contractors to fill those positions.
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They should have kept all the Specialist Ranks. People can be excellent at their job skills and never be a leader. They are very valuable to the military and with the specialist rank structure, were paid for their skills and had a rewarding military career.
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PO2 Steven Southard
The "up or out" and being forced into a management role is one of the biggest reasons I separated.
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Back in 1972, I was a SP4. We wore khaki uniforms back then. My SP4 eagle was sown on my sleeves. I had bloused boots, since I was in the 82nd Airborne. I went to my brother’s wedding, and at the reception, his new father in law asked when I had made Eagle Scout. I was very embarrassed. I did not want to wear my uniform in public until I made sergeant. I was in Korea, when I made SP5. They would not let me into the NCO club at Camp Casey. I begged the 1SG, and he and the CO made me an acting sergeant. I still have those orders.
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SPC Steve dePinet
In '78-82, when we wore Khaki (then called Tropical Wear or TW), it was with low quarter shoes. I would much rather have worn Combat Boots with them, bloused, as you say. They truly weren't khakis, they were permanent press. When I was working in Greeley Hall (on Ft. Huachuca), my NCOIC told me that the SGM had said that if I wanted to keep wearing the fatigues (that I had work my entire time in Germany), he could get me transferred to a tactical Signal Outfit, if not, I could wear TWs. I really preferred the fatigues, though. OTOH, that was while the Army was transitioning to the campy pajammies, which I had no intention of buying or wearing... I ETS'd not longer after that. Still wear combat boots...
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Anthony Marston
MAJ Norm Michaels - SLIGHT WORD ERROR ABOVE OF ' sown ' S/B ' sewn ' FOR FUTURE REFERENCE - ALL THE BEST - CM
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SPC Edward Abney
SPC Steve dePinet - SPC dePinet, when I was in, (62-65), Khaki and TW were two different items. Khakis were cotton, and could be worn as casual or dress. Casual was short sleeves, pants, low quarters, and barracks cap. Dress Khaki consisted of long sleeve shirt, tie, tucked into your shirt, low quarters, and barracks cap. TW's were tropical worsted wool, and usually only worn by WO's and officers. In hotter climates, Khaki shorts were worn with calf-length socks. Khaki was worn during the summer months.
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Specialist ranks made perfect sense for those in technical fields. They should be brought back.
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SSG Byron Hewett
SPC Woody Bullard - hey at least I knew where to when something was needed off the books or not found anywhere close by you guys always had the best pogee bait out in the field
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Actually the "social experiment" goes back a lot further than the creation of "Specialist" grades. The Army created "Technician" ranks during WWII
The basis then and now has always been the problem that the military is required by law to tie rank and pay grade together regardless of the practical necessity to pay some people more for their technical skills than their leadership skills
In fact, when the Army created the Specialist ranks, they attempted to bypass the law by declaring that ALL the specialist ranks were below Corporal within the army even though comparability with other services was by pay grade. That tap-dance was later overruled with each specialist grade then ranking below the equivalent NCO grade.
Now that only the lowest Special grade remains (renamed from SP4 to SPC) there is really little justification for it at all, because now we have highly qualified technical specialists like computer programmers and medical technicians who rise to senior NCO ranks without being expected to develop the leadership skills appropriate to their ranks.
The basis then and now has always been the problem that the military is required by law to tie rank and pay grade together regardless of the practical necessity to pay some people more for their technical skills than their leadership skills
In fact, when the Army created the Specialist ranks, they attempted to bypass the law by declaring that ALL the specialist ranks were below Corporal within the army even though comparability with other services was by pay grade. That tap-dance was later overruled with each specialist grade then ranking below the equivalent NCO grade.
Now that only the lowest Special grade remains (renamed from SP4 to SPC) there is really little justification for it at all, because now we have highly qualified technical specialists like computer programmers and medical technicians who rise to senior NCO ranks without being expected to develop the leadership skills appropriate to their ranks.
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SPC Woody Bullard
Interesting remembering the Technician Ranks used during WW II.
The T placed under the chevrons set the rank apart from NCO ranks.
My father was a Technician Fifth Grade T/5 in WW II. Dad told me
the guys called him a Tech Corporal. Dad in center with his two joker
buddies holding machetes against his neck on Saipan.
The T placed under the chevrons set the rank apart from NCO ranks.
My father was a Technician Fifth Grade T/5 in WW II. Dad told me
the guys called him a Tech Corporal. Dad in center with his two joker
buddies holding machetes against his neck on Saipan.
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Suspended Profile
The US Army is the only branch that E-4 is not an NCO Junior leader including the Coast Guard. E-4’s as NCO’s builds leadership and Responsibilities. I served in the Marine Corps 10yrs and Army 8yrs and always gave my Spc-E-4’s more responsibility and duties and pushed them to the board. All the OTHER Branches promote their E-3’s on time and grade to NCO. Yes in the Marine Corps you will deploy with a ton of L/CPU’s and come back with a ton of Cpl’s but we in the Corps treat our young L/Cpl’s as leaders and train them to be Cpls by assigning them to Crew Chiefs in my old MOS AMTRAC’s and as Team Leaders. I would put any of my old L/Cpls against any Army Spc’s at the time, the Army has a training and leadership problem and needs to revamp their rank structure. All the other Military Branches can’t be wrong!
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
Lt Col Jim Coe - As I recall it, depends on whether the star on the stripes is bright or dull. Bright equal Sergeant and dull equal Senior airman as I recall, and both E-4.
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For a short period of time, I was laterally transferred from Staff Sergeant E-6 to Specialist 6. I had moved into a computer programmer position and no longer had troops to supervise. I made E-7 and was promoted to SFC. back supervising troops.
IMO, the idea of specialist was good at the time when we had a large standing force. Now, probably not so much.
IMO, the idea of specialist was good at the time when we had a large standing force. Now, probably not so much.
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SPC Edward Abney
I believe that we need a "large standing force", to face the Global conflicts that are just over the horizon. Bring back the Draft!
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My understanding was that if the Army made them CPLs, it would cut severely into troops available for fatigue and other details. NCOs cannot be on fatigue details. So in order to have enough soldiers for KP, area police, rock painting, etc. they kept Speedy 4. Otherwise, you would wear out your Privates.
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MSG Thomas Currie
You have obviously never been in one of the several Active Army units were the lowest rank in the unit is an SFC. Guess who gets to mow the grass and do police call in a Readiness Group or any of the other specialized headquarters units.
On the other hand, I had also been in units where the reverse notion caused ridiculous 'solutions' -- at one time 1st ID (Fwd) had a policy that only "NCOs" could be CQ, SDNCO, or Sergeant of the Guard. I suppose this made some sort of sense in the Infantry, but it was a serious problem in the tank battalion and cavalry troop, where there were no E5 SGT positions, all the E5 positions were SP5 (despite being combat arms). The only way for an E5 to actually be a SGT was if carried in a SSG slot on the UMR (which never happened because 1SG's and CSM's hated to see the "grade unequal" error message on the UMR). The "solution" was to appoint all the SP5's as Acting Sergeants.
On the other hand, I had also been in units where the reverse notion caused ridiculous 'solutions' -- at one time 1st ID (Fwd) had a policy that only "NCOs" could be CQ, SDNCO, or Sergeant of the Guard. I suppose this made some sort of sense in the Infantry, but it was a serious problem in the tank battalion and cavalry troop, where there were no E5 SGT positions, all the E5 positions were SP5 (despite being combat arms). The only way for an E5 to actually be a SGT was if carried in a SSG slot on the UMR (which never happened because 1SG's and CSM's hated to see the "grade unequal" error message on the UMR). The "solution" was to appoint all the SP5's as Acting Sergeants.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
MSG Thomas Currie - At USASOC, when we were in the old confinement facility at Liberty, before the current building was built, had a green beanie SFC that took care of grass. When we moved, civilians did it. Never could get the 82d post support BDE to do it. LOL
As for grade, a SP5 was an E-5, the grade would have been equal, but the rank would not be.
As for grade, a SP5 was an E-5, the grade would have been equal, but the rank would not be.
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I was a corporal as an MP, back in '86, because promotions were frozen, and I had been acting as Patrol Sergeant for months, with no end in sight. My Platoon Sergeant did the work to reward me. In 90, while I was MI, I was able to make a case that one my Specialists was acting as an NCO, leading an Analyst team, and I mean leading it. I got him his two stripes. He pulled 20 years. I don't know about now. But back then, if you believed in your troop, and were willing to put in the work, he could get that 2 stripes. It was just a matter of the leader being willing to put in the work to reward his troop, and recognize his effort.
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I personally think that getting rid of the Spec 5 through Spec 7 ranks was a big mistake. Not everyone is cut out to be a leader. an NCO whether Corporal, Sergeant, Sgt 1st Class, 1st Sgt Sgt Maj is a leader. There are a lot of jobs in the military that require a great deal of technical expertise but do not
require leadership abilities. A senior specialist can still be as accountable as anyone else in their pay grades. There are a lot of folks who want to be a doer and not a leader. The current structure forces them to become a leader even if they are not a good fit for it. As a result a lot of good folks leave when they don't move up
require leadership abilities. A senior specialist can still be as accountable as anyone else in their pay grades. There are a lot of folks who want to be a doer and not a leader. The current structure forces them to become a leader even if they are not a good fit for it. As a result a lot of good folks leave when they don't move up
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CPL (Join to see)
Alot of E-5 positions don't actually require the soldier to even be of a proper MOS. So most of the time the SPC knows more about the job than the squad leader, in many MOS that is very disruptive. I was in patriot air defense. The NCO was one for a totally unrelated section and didn't know how we were supposed to operate.
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A SP4 that's been selected, officially, to be a team leader should be laterally promoted to Corporal.
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Actually they dropped the "Four" and left it at Specialist back in the mid 80's (1986/87). A Specialist doesn't have the NCO leadership authority of a Corporal. So you could be a team leader as a Specialist but lack authority to give a command (what some folks call orders). While stationed at Fort Drum, NY working in the 10th Personnel Service Company, Personnel Actions Branch, our section was without a Team Leader for an extended period of time, only the Section NCO (SSG) in place. Our Company Commander (MAJ/05) who was also the Adjutant General for the post decided to issue a Lateral Appointment for me to CPL/E4, based upon my abilities, MOS knowledge, and informal leadership qualities. No pay change, just the authority to direct duties and responsibilities. People say Rank has is privileges, but with that came responsibilities.
Just have to add that certain MOS's have special duties, knowledge, and training requirements that should be recoginized with the E4 Pay Grade, but not necessarily require the leadership Rank.
Just have to add that certain MOS's have special duties, knowledge, and training requirements that should be recoginized with the E4 Pay Grade, but not necessarily require the leadership Rank.
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SPC Woody Bullard
Reading your post on the lateral appointment to Corporal E-4 was interesting to me
as I was in a situation in the 558 MP Company. We were short on NCOs so I received
OJT along with another SP4 to work a Sergeant E-5 post on our duty roster. I along
with the other SP4 worked the SGT E-5 post excellent enough that our platoon Staff
Sergeant with the green light from the Operation SFC continued using me and the
other SP4 in that NCO post. We never received the lateral over to Corporal but had
the same responsibilities that a NCO would have at that post. We worked at the
"B" gate building entrance gate to the nuclear weapon exclusion zone signing persons
and vehicles in and then out of the zone on the duty log. We gave photo ID badges
to authorized persons entering the zone and collected the ID badges back when they
departed. We also watched over a alarm board for exclusion zone intrusion alerts.
The duty was mostly paper work keeping the gate duty log updated with all other
MP assignments in the exclusion zone. The post was important enough to be
assigned to a SGT E-5. Myself and the other MP were senior time in grade SP4s.
as I was in a situation in the 558 MP Company. We were short on NCOs so I received
OJT along with another SP4 to work a Sergeant E-5 post on our duty roster. I along
with the other SP4 worked the SGT E-5 post excellent enough that our platoon Staff
Sergeant with the green light from the Operation SFC continued using me and the
other SP4 in that NCO post. We never received the lateral over to Corporal but had
the same responsibilities that a NCO would have at that post. We worked at the
"B" gate building entrance gate to the nuclear weapon exclusion zone signing persons
and vehicles in and then out of the zone on the duty log. We gave photo ID badges
to authorized persons entering the zone and collected the ID badges back when they
departed. We also watched over a alarm board for exclusion zone intrusion alerts.
The duty was mostly paper work keeping the gate duty log updated with all other
MP assignments in the exclusion zone. The post was important enough to be
assigned to a SGT E-5. Myself and the other MP were senior time in grade SP4s.
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SPC Vonnie Jones
Hummmm, I was inb1980-89 I was known as a SP4, in GE I was a squad leader during field duty, 260+ days inv1985, (hhb divarty 3ID) I also went to PLDC so I never really saw the distinction that post are making. During my short time at the hospital if I remember correctly one of my supervisor was a SP 6. I guess your responsibilities are given to you by how responsible you are. Hey in Graf a Corporal and SGT tried to walk to the the Czech border, I with my SP4 self may sure their toes didn't get amputated by frost bite lol. I have seen SP4 with EFMB badges and more. Maybe the military should keep the rank of Specialist you can be a specialist and leader in your given MOS.
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CPL (Join to see)
SPC Woody Bullard You were probably both missing BLC. That started to be the requirement for lateral promotion to CPL. It happened to me, I changed MOS and got hurt right before my BLC date. I had already been a squad leader in an E-5 position because I had time in service over the rest of my team. I would have rather stayed a SPC. They force you to promote or leave, no matter how good you are at your job.
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MSG Richard Medina
I too was Lateral appointment to CPL, but as a PFC in the Bn S4 section. Because I was in a position that worked with SGT/SSGs in company supply. No one wanted to deal with a PFC. So my Battery CDR temporarily promoted me to (Acting Jack) CPL, with no change in pay. I must say that I was older than most PFCs in 1984. So my mentality and maturity was also older(24), than the 18yr old PFCs. I went back to being a PFC when I went to Germany along with changing my uniform to being in compliance with my rank and not the Lateral appointment.
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I was a 52E Prime Power Production Specialist operating a research reactor, SP6 promoted to SFC. I did not want to be a leader, I had worked hard to be specialized in nuclear and did not want the responsibilities associated with a leadership position and the distinct possibility I would be assigned to another specialty.
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SPC Lyle Montgomery
I was offered e5 in Nam but turned it down. I was a M60 gunner the whole time that I was there and didn't feel that I was qualified to be a squad leader, which I wasn't. A lot more deserving grunt got it.I just had a few months to do stateside after my tour in Nam and after my 2 year draftee enlistment, I knew for sure that I wanted no part of the Army in my future. I told the re up NCO that the Army would have to burn the mountain and sift the ashes to get my young ass back in.
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Sir, the Army attempted to differentiate between NCO and technicians long before the 1960s. The post-Civil War Army had ranks like Quartermaster Sergeant, Commissary Sergeant, Ordnance Sergeant Saddler Sergeant, Farrier, Principal Trumpeter, etc. By the end of WWI there were over 120 insignia of enlisted rank, most of which reflected the skills of the individual soldiers. When GA John Pershing became Chief of Staff of the Army after the war, he directed that all enlisted Soldiers wear chevrons that only showed their pay grades: Master Sergeant, Technical Sergeant, Staff Sergeant, Sergeant, Corporal. During WWII, the Technician system was devised, so that Soldiers with necessary skills could get paid more without being given NCO responsibilities for which they were not trained. Technician Third Grade (Tec3) was in the same pay grade as SSgt, a Tec4 was paid the same as a Sgt, and a Tec5 was paid the same as a Corp. The Technician system went away in 1948, and the Specialist system started in 1955. The SP9 and SP8 ranks were discontinued in 1968, SP7 went away in 1977, and SP6 and SP5 went away in 1985. Today's Army sends college graduates to basic training as SPC, as a recruiting incentive. Would you suggest that those E-4s be immediately given NCO rank and responsibility?
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SPC Woody Bullard
I remember the Technician Ranks during WW II because my father was a
Technician Fifth Grade the two chevrons with the T underneath. The guys
in my dad's unit on Saipan called him a Tech Corporal their unofficial way of
stating his rank. Dad's duty was working radio communications calling in strikes
on Japanese positions.
Technician Fifth Grade the two chevrons with the T underneath. The guys
in my dad's unit on Saipan called him a Tech Corporal their unofficial way of
stating his rank. Dad's duty was working radio communications calling in strikes
on Japanese positions.
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