Posted on Nov 22, 2016
Where can I find the regulatory guidance for the proper way for a commissioned officer to address an NCO?
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CW2 (Join to see), this really doesn't seem that difficult and why this officer is struggling is beyond me. The Army makes it really easy for everyone to address everyone else. You'll find everyone's "first" and last names right on their uniforms. The first name is rank and the last name is on the nametape! Easy! For example, were I to address you, I would simply say, "Good morning, Sergeant Wise." How hard is that?
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SFC Greg Bruorton
Should I happen to cross paths with LTC Curlee I would address him as "Colonel Curlee" and not "Lieutenant Colonel Curlee" no more than I would want anyone address me as Sergeant First Class Bruorton. Except in official orders, recommendations for awards and certificates, it would simply be "Sergeant."
"Colonel Curlee" has a nice ring to it.
"Colonel Curlee" has a nice ring to it.
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LTC Stephen C.
SFC Greg Bruorton, you are absolutely correct. That's why I would address Staff Sergeant Wise as Sergeant Wise, and he would address me as colonel. However, I think Marines always address each other by their complete rank.
I always thought that "Colonel Curlee had a nice ring to it also. However, I've been retired since MAY98, so those days are long since past!
I always thought that "Colonel Curlee had a nice ring to it also. However, I've been retired since MAY98, so those days are long since past!
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CW2 (Join to see) AR 600-20 tells you how to say each rank in the Army, TR350-6 shows new Soldiers how to address and how to be addressed, AR 600-25 covers salutes and visits. There used to be an FM that as called the Soldier's Guide that also covered customs and courtesies.
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MSgt Mike Briney
Nailed it. In addition, DA PAM 600-60, Table 6-1 provides a good overview from a protocol perspective. Always a good idea to cite to applicable publication as violations constitute a possible Article 92 infraction.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
Thanks for providing the regulations SSGT Wise can cite to gain compliance by this officer who obviously doesn't respect the NCOs that work for him. These NCOs have earned their rank just as he earned his and that deserves acknowledgement, especially in light of the fact it has been brought to his attention that they prefer him address them by rank. He may think that he is creating a 'relaxed' atmosphere, but the example he is setting will filter down through the ranks so that the enlisted personnel working for these NCOs may adopt the same attitude which may undermine their authority. It also sets up those same junior personnel for disciplinary action when they follow his example which is unfair to them.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
I was at Notfolk base terminal waiting for a flight down to Myetle beach and I acknowledged their presence as protocol
Calls for. These guys were absolutely snobby.. A Navy Chief who'd witnessed the exchange went into the back and came out with a Navy captain.. they both went over to those Lts and the Chief backed off
And the Capt. invited them into his office...
A few minutes later they came out and the Captain was with them.. they came over and apologized for their snobbery when I acknowledged them... I never expected that... it was cool !
Calls for. These guys were absolutely snobby.. A Navy Chief who'd witnessed the exchange went into the back and came out with a Navy captain.. they both went over to those Lts and the Chief backed off
And the Capt. invited them into his office...
A few minutes later they came out and the Captain was with them.. they came over and apologized for their snobbery when I acknowledged them... I never expected that... it was cool !
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When I was in the Marine Corps, to get the tension off of new people arriving in our squadron I would tell them that we had a relaxed shop and called everyone by their first name, and my first name was SGT.
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CWO3 (Join to see)
good answer, I've served a couple of times in Wing Engineers but not in a squadron, have heard that sometimes the pilots use first names with enlisted, maybe just a few such as their crew chief and only one on one, a little less strict, low stress
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SSgt Jw Guest
I was on embassy duty when a Army major addressed me by my first name so I said "Well good morning to you too, Don!" Needless to say he stripped a gear and I was quickly educated by my DetCmdr that it was an officer's prerogative to do that. Fortunately after a lengthy discussing in Army vs Marine expectations, he said he would never address anyone of us by or first names again and even promised to knock out 25 Marine count push ups if he continued to refer to our SNCOIC as "Sarge." Turned out to be one of the funniest military life lessons I ever received!
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GySgt William Hardy
When I went on Joint Service duty back in the mid 70s, I was told to study up on the customs and courtesies of the other branches. It was a bit difficult to remember to salute indoors when I had to report to the Air Force commander and then turn around and not salute the Marine deputy commander. If I heard an Air Force officer use a first name to an enlisted man, I just ignored it. That officer never called me anything except Staff Sergeant or Gunny so all was good between us. If anyone got upset with first names, it was the Navy Chiefs.
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Staff Sargent, I'm sure you have heard "Respect is not demanded or granted, it is earned". An officer must earn the respect of those he or she works with by demonstrating respect to everyone. That is not done by calling them by their name with out stating their rank first. I only spent 20 years in the army and worked with the Navy for almost 30 years and never heard an officer address an enlisted by his or her first name.
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CW3 Christian Johnson
Thank you Sir.
I can answer the question. Go to FM-7-21 Chapter 4 I should have remembered it from when I attend the NCO Academy but that was in 1969.
I can answer the question. Go to FM-7-21 Chapter 4 I should have remembered it from when I attend the NCO Academy but that was in 1969.
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Just tell him/her your first name is SSG.
Then remind him/her to be professional. You have soldiers under you.
Then remind him/her to be professional. You have soldiers under you.
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SPC Lucien Thomas
Or you could use those soldier's to remind him there is no rule saying you can't space out your troops so he has to spend his afternoon saluting each one individually. Nothing that is besides professional courtesy.
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CPO Henry Enterline
First names imply fraternization to juniors. Good thing my first name was Chief.
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PO1 Kevin Dougherty
I have to agree. I did have a couple, well OK, more than a couple, where in private we would address each other on a first name basis. In public though it was always PO XXXXXX, Mr. XXXXXX, Ms. XXXXXX. The closest thing to an exception would be on Commander I served with. He was of Polish decent and had one of those names about as long as my arm that ended in Ski. It was a real tongue twister, and he insisted that officers and petty officers who reported to him call him "Mr. B."
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I have been off active duty for over 41 years. Last Reserve drill was 30 years ago. Here is my take.
The proper address for an NCO is Sgt (or completer rank e.g. SSG) and last name. Anything other than that can be acceptable if the NCO does not object. But, it should be rare that the first name is standard. Using the first name could show a lack of respect for the NCO who has earned the strips worn.
The proper address for an NCO is Sgt (or completer rank e.g. SSG) and last name. Anything other than that can be acceptable if the NCO does not object. But, it should be rare that the first name is standard. Using the first name could show a lack of respect for the NCO who has earned the strips worn.
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Sgt John de Nugent
I agree, and having been both Army and Marines, I agree with the Marines that senior NCOs should always be addressed by full rank: First Sergeant, Master Sergeant, etc.
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MSgt John McGowan
Capt. I have also been out 40 years. Sgt was usually used with the exception of E9. They were called Chief. My first name was Sgt. MSgt wasn't used.
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In my experience, officers in the Army address other officers of equal or lesser rank by their first names. They are expected to address those of greater rank appropriately regardless of how they are addressed. My guess is that this is a 1LT/2LT you're referring to and he or she does not realize their mistake. It could also be someone who just doesn't care. I would push the issue through the NCO support channel. As a battalion CSM, I would have been interested to know this was occurring in my unit and I am sure the Bn Cdrs I worked for would have supported me in making the correction.
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While I might have "slipped" once or twice in a private setting (just the other person and myself), I always made it a practice to address NCO's/Petty Officers properly according to their title. It is disrespectful to use first names in normal settings. Each of our subordinates should receive proper respect, as do each of our seniors. To do otherwise would be contrary to the morale of others and traditions of the services.
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MSG (Join to see)
in a private setting that should be ok, as a reservist in the medical field many of us work together in the civi world, but as reservists in uniform then that changes
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I can't locate anything specific, either. I would recommend letting the Officer know that addressing you by your first name (especially in front of your troops) feels and makes the appearance of being unprofessional.
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all of the officers I work for call me Dan. I am totally fine with it even though I refer to them as sir. This is a close community and I work very hard to be here. We are family and this is why we are so effective. These kind of questions makes me proud to have left the conventional Army.
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In the Navy its either Petty Officer or Chief. Ive had officer who addressed me by my first name in private, because of knowing them, because either having served with before, or them being prior enlisted.. But this is something that should never been done in public. There is a line between officer and enlisted and I believe calling an NCO by his first name in public, crosses that line and is a bad example for junior troops
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MCPO Kurt Stauff
When I was an SCPO and MCPO, even when I was at a casual gathering, my subordinates either called me "Senior" or "Master Chief", no exceptions. They knew I would not have allowed it.
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CPO David Sharp
Roger that Master Chief, I would feel uncomfortable addressing you any other way. This goes even after years of knowing a person from a retired standpoint. The Rank and Honor has been earned and always should be respected and acknowledged.
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This is a first for me. To this day I can't get officers I worked with to call me by my first name. They all still call me Chief. While still in the Air Force I had some officers try to call me by my first name. I usually requested they address me by my proper title. That usually solved it. A few called me Scotty, when in private, but they were usually Commanders who I respected greatly & it did not bother me. Never in front of the Airmen. Sounds like an officer who doesn't realize the effort & sacrifice it takes to earn rank.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
1stSgt Chris Schmidt - I guess on thinking back I've had some of the same sort of experience also as a First Sergeant at one point. In other Senior NCO positions that also seemed to happen but mostly in all cases as one on one not in front of others. Of course I didn't address them by their first names, that didn't seem proper not even one on one.
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Speak to your senior command NCO "off the record" with the details. A command NCO will talk to the CO and a good CO will remind the junior officers how to address subordinates in a professional manner.
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In every service, there are documents and regulations that keep mutual respect in mind, as well as phrases and words that might easily pass as fraternization; I got into leadership positions early in my Naval career, but I never allowed my juniors to call me by my first name. It was sometimes uncomfortable as I rose up in the chain of command, as my senior enlisted tended to call me by my first name in private, never in public, because I was more their age and life experience. When I was the most senior enlisted on the command, I would allow the CO and XO to call be by my first name in private, and I would never reciprocate, unless they insisted, as long as it would pass scrutiny as not being construed as favoritism. I would advise a commander to eschew calling anyone by their first name in public, and would remind them of the rules on fraternization, as they were developed to promote command cohesiveness.
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Who cares? This really sounds petty. You should feel lucky that the officer took the time to learn and remember your first name, Id consider it a compliment and only makes him seem more personalable. I find this far better than an officer thats disconnected
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PO2 Robert Cuminale
I saw three E-6s I worked with and for promoted to Chief Petty Officer. Despite being on a first name basis or surname basis on their first day in the office with their new khakis I addressed them as "Chief". They'd worked hard for that promotion and deserved the respect due them. Even in a recreational setting like a picnic they were still "Chief".
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MSgt (Join to see)
Obviously the OP cares. It is an issue of respect. If the officer does not respect the wishes of the NCO, especially after being requested to use the earned title, then I would start to wonder if that person has another agenda. It can cause a breakdown in communications if the NCO starts feeling uneasy about the situation. The professional thing to do is to address others by their title. So, from your perspective you don't see it as an issue. But, you must consider the perspectives of others, look at the larger picture and see what the consequences that this situation can cause. Especially now that you, yourself, are an NCO and may have, or will have, subordinates that work under you.
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SSgt Kevin Hopkins
Personally I think it gives an appearance of respect if the officer can talk to an NCO on a 1 to 1 basis. I also think theres a time and place for everything. First names wouldnt be appropriate in a formal military setting or if that NCO made the officer aware he wasnt comfortable being addressed by his first name
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Politely and consistently ignore him. When he calls you on it, apologize and tell him of your confusion since you have gotten used to being respected enough by others to be addressed by your sir name especially since you don't know if there are any others with your first name which you only respond to when the women in your life use it. This worked for me
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This is like an NCO refusing to call an Officer "Sir" and instead using his rank, or the abbreviation like L T. It goes both ways.
Now if a senior officer who has known the Sergeant a long time calls the NCO by his first name it is not a professional thing to do in a public setting. For a Junior Officer to do so publicly are really not that smart when the NCO objects.
Now if a senior officer who has known the Sergeant a long time calls the NCO by his first name it is not a professional thing to do in a public setting. For a Junior Officer to do so publicly are really not that smart when the NCO objects.
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I had a Lt that called me by my first name when i was his Plt Sgt but never in front of other soldiers if you dont like it tell them if they dont change then take it up the chain of command
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I would mention it to another officer that you find it unprofessional. He may take it a lot better from a peer.
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I serve for 39 years, during all this time there was only 3 way's to address and NCO "Sergeant" "1SG" and "SGM"
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CSM Charles Hayden
1SG (Join to see) Please do not address me as ‘SMAG’! Not even the General! One of his aides did once!
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