Posted on May 5, 2022
Do you think foul language helps build warriors?
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Posted in these groups: 
Basic Training
Leadership
Basic Training Leadership
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 35
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History of word fuck very funny
Watch this video. The funniest and most entertaining video on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqnvxP0H3lM
Sgt (Join to see) SGT Randal Groover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SGT Charlie Lee Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr CPL Douglas Chrysler SPC Michael Terrell SPC Nancy Greene GySgt Thomas Vick GySgt Gary Cordeiro GySgt Jack Wallace PO1 William "Chip" Nagel MGySgt (Join to see) SPC Woody Bullard SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSgt Marian Mitchell SPC Margaret Higgins SMSgt Anil Heendeniya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqnvxP0H3lM
Sgt (Join to see) SGT Randal Groover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SGT Charlie Lee Cpl James R. " Jim" Gossett Jr CPL Douglas Chrysler SPC Michael Terrell SPC Nancy Greene GySgt Thomas Vick GySgt Gary Cordeiro GySgt Jack Wallace PO1 William "Chip" Nagel MGySgt (Join to see) SPC Woody Bullard SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSgt Marian Mitchell SPC Margaret Higgins SMSgt Anil Heendeniya
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Foul language is like any spice, in moderation, it flavors just right. Overused, it sours the dish.
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Maj John Bell
CPT Lawrence Cable - I think one of the major differences between Army culture and Marines culture is the role officers do and don't take in discipline/ass chewing. Generally, that was (might be different now) NCO and SNCO territory, unless there was an immediate danger to life limb, equipment or materiel. Even then it was usually limited to scene stabilization. I served with a great SgtMaj who advised me once that if an officer is not cool, calm and collected at all times, it raises questions as to how he'd react in the middle of a combat crap sandwich.
After that advice, my corrections generally consisted of questions.
"Are you satisfied with that?"
"Did you learn enough to make sure it doesn't happen that way again?
"Will you please explain what you learned and what you should have done/not done?"
and so on.
I hear that particular SgtMaj swear once. Just above a whisper he said to a Sgt, "What the Fuck did you just say?" I have no idea what the Sgt said. The ensuing silence was deafening, immediately followed by a rush of SNCO's to get the offending Sgt out of sight and into figurative body armor, cover and concealment.
After that advice, my corrections generally consisted of questions.
"Are you satisfied with that?"
"Did you learn enough to make sure it doesn't happen that way again?
"Will you please explain what you learned and what you should have done/not done?"
and so on.
I hear that particular SgtMaj swear once. Just above a whisper he said to a Sgt, "What the Fuck did you just say?" I have no idea what the Sgt said. The ensuing silence was deafening, immediately followed by a rush of SNCO's to get the offending Sgt out of sight and into figurative body armor, cover and concealment.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Maj John Bell - I never saw it to be my job to correct the rank and files unless it was a safety violation thing. As Platoon Leader, tactically the Squad Leaders were mine, but I didn't step in the NCO business, that was the Platoon Sergeants job. OTOH, correcting Junior Officers is the CO's job. While the PSG, 1st SGT or SGM might have a "friendly" conversation with the PL's, I always saw correcting the Lt's as the CO's job.
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Maj John Bell
CPT Lawrence Cable - Sounds the same. The SgtMaj wasn't correcting me. He was offering some friendly advice and mentorship. In my first FMF assignment the SgtMaj took it very seriously that one of the top things SNCO's should do is guide the junior officers. It was a rare week that Plt Ldrs and Plt Sgt's didn't get an hour or two of time with the Bn CO, SgtMaj and the appropriate 1stSgt each in the field or garrison.
The only time he ever got into tactics was when I asked him about indirect, observed machine gun fire (He was a machine gunner during WWII and Korea) We didn't have our TO/E CWO BN Gunner for about my first year there. And there was nothing other than a cursory reference in the FMFM's. He helped us generate the ballistic tables.
The only time he ever got into tactics was when I asked him about indirect, observed machine gun fire (He was a machine gunner during WWII and Korea) We didn't have our TO/E CWO BN Gunner for about my first year there. And there was nothing other than a cursory reference in the FMFM's. He helped us generate the ballistic tables.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Maj John Bell - I was lucky to have decent PSG's and a good First Sergeant. If the First Sergeant didn't think his "mentoring" was getting through, he never had a problem of coming to me and ask me to assist in removing the LT's head from his fourth point of contact. But I never had a problem with telling him that a certain NCO need some more forceful "mentoring", which he was pretty good at also.
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Sounds like a loaded question. Anyway, foul language in itself is not generally good, and not necessary. But just like football, soccer, basketball, coaches have been known to motivate their Team members with colorful language. This often rolls down hill throughout the Team. Admittedly, if foul language is directed toward any group or individual in any way other than for motivational purposes is is not good.
There can be a time and a place, Soldiers can always express their personal feeling on the matter speaking with that leader or individual and could/should bring light to the matter.
In all my years policy has fluctuated based on the theme of the senior leaderships style. Again, used as a form of attack on individuals and groups is unacceptable. Their are also acceptions during corrective conversations when the point is not hitting home. Anyway you get the point, this is a contentious conversation at the very least.
There can be a time and a place, Soldiers can always express their personal feeling on the matter speaking with that leader or individual and could/should bring light to the matter.
In all my years policy has fluctuated based on the theme of the senior leaderships style. Again, used as a form of attack on individuals and groups is unacceptable. Their are also acceptions during corrective conversations when the point is not hitting home. Anyway you get the point, this is a contentious conversation at the very least.
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SGM William Everroad
CSM Darieus ZaGara, I don't see it as very contentious. In the cases you mentioned for motivation, I agree that using colorful language can assist. But in the same token NCOs are supposed to be professionals. To me, this means we need to know when to shut it off. Like during corrective conversations. Regardless if the point is not hitting home, cursing the Soldier out rarely solves the core issue. You may get temporary gains, but long term, being a professional leader seems to outlast and CYA.
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SSG Merry Metzler
Thank you. My son & I had a difference of opinion. And in Desert Storm, one of my squad leaders ripped one of his people a new on without one cuss word. The discussion was prompted by an article on FB.
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I don't see how it helps (except maybe weeding out the pansies) but I sure hell don't see how it hurts.
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I like Maj John Bell's answer. I found over the years that foul language often indicates a limited vocabulary or persuasive skills. I once dropped an F-bomb in the wrong place and time and it probably cost me a promotion. For the next 20 years, I carefully avoided using profanity in my daily life. I haven't missed it at all.
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You use the tools at hand to build Marines. In June 1968, we were physically manhandled, and all kinds of things were yelled at us. The hard training helped to prepare us for Vietnam. Combat in Vietnam was much harder than Boot Camp. Foul language was expected and it did nothing to stop me from being the best Marine that I could become.
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Sgt (Join to see)
Well said Cpl Vic Burk Sgt (Join to see) I was a Marine in the 1970s and though I only did one tour, I would’ve stayed on much longer if not for family issues. I remember the military being admirably tough back then; as far as we were concerned, whiners could hit the road. As far as swearing, whatever helps: Soldiers going into conflicts need to > feel tough< besides being tough. Sissies are a hindrance.
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Sgt (Join to see)
Sgt (Join to see) - Cpl Vic Burk Sgt (Join to see) - Is it just me or does it seem like it's all the other services that really don't like the swearing? Where would our beloved Corps be without our Drill Instructors throwing knife hands around while saying, "Listen up, fuckers?"
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Sgt (Join to see)
Sgt (Join to see) Cpl Vic Burk - The knife hand, Good one! I remember the female Marine DIs were really tough back then- like stone, very precise. Nope, they did not spare for female tears. :D.
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I entered basic training just as the seeds of wokeness were planted.
We had a pow wow session with the Drill SGT's regarding vulgarity, and they asked around if anyone was offended by the over use of it.
I said something to the effect that the over use of it dilutes it's intended impact. If one just throws vulgarity all over the place all the time then we don't know when they are really mad. So it's just another word. I didn't care either way. It was clearly a power trip, because a swearing trainee in the face of a Drill SGT would bring hellfire. So the vulgarity only was ever going to go one direction.
Now, the eye opening experience of this discussion was one PVT spoke up. This is a safe time so he could share his thoughts without push back. Then another spoke up, then another, then another, then another.
It was unreal............... I quietly laughed in my head. The Drill SGTs were beside themselves.
I don't remember how the conversation ended, but it was probably something along the lines of all you privates get your fucking asses back to the barracks and wax the fucking floors so you can see your fucking ugly reflection in the morning.
I jest, but the pow wow didn't change a thing.
We had a pow wow session with the Drill SGT's regarding vulgarity, and they asked around if anyone was offended by the over use of it.
I said something to the effect that the over use of it dilutes it's intended impact. If one just throws vulgarity all over the place all the time then we don't know when they are really mad. So it's just another word. I didn't care either way. It was clearly a power trip, because a swearing trainee in the face of a Drill SGT would bring hellfire. So the vulgarity only was ever going to go one direction.
Now, the eye opening experience of this discussion was one PVT spoke up. This is a safe time so he could share his thoughts without push back. Then another spoke up, then another, then another, then another.
It was unreal............... I quietly laughed in my head. The Drill SGTs were beside themselves.
I don't remember how the conversation ended, but it was probably something along the lines of all you privates get your fucking asses back to the barracks and wax the fucking floors so you can see your fucking ugly reflection in the morning.
I jest, but the pow wow didn't change a thing.
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CPT (Join to see)
Sgt (Join to see) - yep, it was entirely driven by the drill SGT's having to conduct such a briefing. So obviously it was coming from higher within TRADOC
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Foul language is the quotation marks emphasizing disappointment, frustration , and excitement and takes the place of physical displays of emotion
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Training builds warriors.
Language serves only as an indicator of the quality of the brain transmitting the information.
Language serves only as an indicator of the quality of the brain transmitting the information.
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CPT Lawrence Cable
Or sometimes the quality of the brain receiving that information. I had guys in my squads that Mother Tereasa would have slapped in the head.
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