Does God exist? Or, is there a God?

Was there not a big atheist, like the person that ran the whole thing, that said on his dying bed that he was wrong about everything?? I know they SAY something was said, but I wonder if it is the truth. Either way, you did remarkable. You definitely should be proud of yourself. I know that I am proud of you as a Christian and I KNOW JC and the God all Mighty is. Good Night, and have the best of dreams. SPC D W

I have heard rumors about the big atheist, SGT (Join to see). I do know that both Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell were big atheists prior to an honest investigation.

Josh McDowell's own testimony is actually remarkably like Cpt Kisely and Lt Sudnik: he hated Christians and took every opportunity to belittle and flat out attack them.

And then one of his friends challenged him to HONESTLY investigate the events.

He became a Christian.

The same is rumored for C S Lewis and Simon Greenleaf, though I don't know for sure.

I do know that longtime atheist Anthony Flew, recorded as the world's most intellectual atheist, died a deist, if not a Christian. And actually wrote a book, "There IS a God."

Some people take a while, however. Despite how others respond.

That said, thank you for the support! :-)

SPC D W - SPC, Have you ever read the history of perhaps one of our Greatest Presidents, Abraham Lincoln? If not I challenge you to read the whole life of Abraham Lincoln, who was among the greatest of God-haters in his youth - blaming God for death of his beloved mother, death of a close sister, death of his beloved fiancee, and death of his children after he did get married . . . yet as he learned to understand and who to blame, he became among the greatest God lovers! Talk about Atheists seeing the light, consider the famous atheist Chris Hitchens. With cancer at age 61, facing and feeling his mortality, he already has greatly changed his rhetoric, and is "Thanking people almost daily in the press . . . FOR PRAYING FOR HIM!"
And there was Thomas Payne Author of Common Sense at the time of our Republic's beginning. He was the leading atheistic writer in American colonies: but on his death bed he wrote: "Stay with me, for God's sake; I cannot bear to be left alone , O Lord, help me! O God, what have I done to suffer so much? What will become of me hereafter? "I would give worlds if I had them, that The Age of Reason had never been published. O Lord, help me! JESUS, help me! …No, don't leave;"

You cannot get much better proof than that...

You hit the nail on the head, Sgt! It is all about faith: Heb. 11:1 tells us: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth - experience is another thing that doesn't make your belief true. Just because you experience something you can't understand, doesn't mean it was a deity. It just means you lack the knowledge of what transpired, or are unwilling to accept that things just happen.

SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas - and you don't see any issues with that statement. SO long as you find the right church (the one you believe in and your religious preference) then all things are all good. Sooooo what about everyone else?

Just curious, are you trying to convince us..., or yourself? I'm pretty comfortable in my Christian faith. Virtual particles do not come from nothing. They are photons interacting with electromagnetic fields. It is possible to have science and religion. Even the Bible points out that man is capable of understanding the world that God has put into motion (tower of Babel). Calm down and science on. I'd encourage the study of God's wonderful creation.

CW3 (Join to see) - my condolences on your way of thinking.

A topic that can easily go off the rails.

What if we are just a science experiment for a very advanced alien society...lol
Kind of like that LTC Bink Romanick.

Cpl Robert Lowes - What? That statement doesn't make any sense...

Cpl Robert Lowes - no, no we can't agree that a force created the universe. because that's not how things work.

@MCPO Jerald Motyka - yah, I wanna see how this one unfolds. Stay tuned, see film at 11

"Religion & Politics"... they are probably the two things that impact your life the most, but they say we should never talk about them. Why is that? And who are "they" anyway?

Izzy Avila, those who observe the rule to avoid talking of politics and religion, tend to talk about sports both politically and religiously!

Talking is one thing, It's those that can't play nice that ruin it for the rest. I tend to stay of these topics as well.

I agree, half of getting through life is getting along with others. Being a good person, one who's actions and interactions are valued by others is a key part of being human, and coincidentally are key concepts of many religions.

Or, perhaps it's not so coincidental.

Yes it has take being Separated from my family to realize how far away from God we had gone the last few years. Especially me as I am trying to cope with what I have done figure out how and why I became that monster that I promised myself I never wanted to be.

It hasn't been easy two months here, almost went back into the hospital Thursday, but the ER released me after 5 hours. I guess their idea of being concern of someone thinking about SUICIDE and mine are totally different. Shrug. Well anyway gone through my comp and pen hearings. X-Ray tomorrow. EEG and CAT Scan to see if I suffering from suizure activity. Which would explain a lot of times when thinks went askew in my life, including my jump where I broke Lrg. Thank Mom and Dad for not telling me about possiblity of suizure activity on her side if the family. What can you do!

There are little thinks that He has done. I am in a place where I the local V.A Clinic can do most of what I need done local. He bless me with two interviews for positions with State of Michigan Working in the field of my degree, so hopefully, He will be with me during those interviews. Also have my resume turned into Dow Chemical for job their. These chances would not be offered if it wasn't some other power at work.

I don't need proof when I have faith. But I believe if one wants proof they only need to take a look around them. All this beauty & majesty couldn't have been created through chaos. It was created, by God. When one observes the evil and atrocities committed in this world, then it's not to hard to believe that Satan exists and is doing his best to quash our faith in God and replace it with doubt.

CW3 (Join to see) - time only applies to systems and creations which change. Time is an artificial construct which is used to measure change. In science and mathematics "delta T" indicates change in time. Time has no absolute value.
You have no relationship with God whatsoever which is why you are trying to make God fit into your paradigm - that is not unusual. Everybody has wrestled with that issue.
As far as Energy equaling mass multiplied by the speed of light, Einstein demonstrated in the general and special theories of relativity that the typically constant Speed of Light is actually a variable.
Spirit is equivalent or similar to energy. Spirit by definition has no density, mass, or energy and it is not measurable. GOD is not part of the system of nature that HE created. HE is self-existent which is impossible for us to understand or comprehend. GOD had no beginning and has no end. In contrast, each human being has a spirit nature which has a beginning but will have no end.
Anthropomorphism refers to statements similar to God laying placing the stars with HIS "hand," God measuring the earth with HIS handbreadth; He is the potter and we are the clay, etc.
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again, by the definition of the word, anthropomorphism is a uniquely human trait. There would need to be a word that means the opposite, a definition of which I can't fathom because it would be a definition created by man attributing a human trait to a god...then we are back to anthropomorphism again.

Time is not an artificial construct...which was explained in Einstein's special theory of relativity. You are literally experiencing and using time dilation as you sit there typing out your response, which then goes through the wires, out through your ISP, shot up to a satellite, over to another satellite, then down to the ground receiver which, because of time dilation have to be synched (DUE TO TIME DILATION) so that the information of your response can be recombined and pumped through my ISP to be read by my eyes. Time is not just a representative symbol Einstein put down on paper.

And no, in no way, shape or form is the speed of light variable. It and it alone is the ultimate measuring stick in the universe, NOTHING exceeds the speed of light. if you had read the work, you would recite as Einstein wrote, that the speed of light in a vacuum is ALWAYS constant. Which has been measured so many times to such a degree that it becomes boring, we know it to be just under 300K/S. You can even test it out to +/- 5% with a microwave oven and some old stale Peeps from Easter. Seriously, it's that easy to calculate.

Do you have anything to back up your claim that spirit is the same as energy, since energy is something that can quantified? what definition of spirit are you using? because I can't find the one you are talking about in any modern dictionary. nor does any definition mention it be immeasurable, or measureable at that.

How can you know he is self existent, which that phrase makes no sense but I see where you are going, if you claim that you cannot know or understand god? That's the very definition of a contradiction.

LTC Stephen F. - again, by the definition of the word, anthropomorphism is a uniquely human trait. There would need to be a word that means the opposite, a definition of which I can't fathom because it would be a definition created by man attributing a human trait to a god...then we are back to anthropomorphism again.

Time is not an artificial construct...which was explained in Einstein's special theory of relativity. You are literally experiencing and using time dilation as you sit there typing out your response, which then goes through the wires, out through your ISP, shot up to a satellite, over to another satellite, then down to the ground receiver which, because of time dilation have to be synched (DUE TO TIME DILATION) so that the information of your response can be recombined and pumped through my ISP to be read by my eyes. Time is not just a representative symbol Einstein put down on paper.

And no, in no way, shape or form is the speed of light variable. It and it alone is the ultimate measuring stick in the universe, NOTHING exceeds the speed of light. if you had read the work, you would recite as Einstein wrote, that the speed of light in a vacuum is ALWAYS constant. Which has been measured so many times to such a degree that it becomes boring, we know it to be just under 300K/S. You can even test it out to +/- 5% with a microwave oven and some old stale Peeps from Easter. Seriously, it's that easy to calculate.

Do you have anything to back up your claim that spirit is the same as energy, since energy is something that can quantified? what definition of spirit are you using? because I can't find the one you are talking about in any modern dictionary. nor does any definition mention it be immeasurable, or measureable at that.

How can you know he is self existent, which that phrase makes no sense but I see where you are going, if you claim that you cannot know or understand god? That's the very definition of a contradiction.

CW3 (Join to see) - what is your degree in? Is it a scientific discipline?
The speed of light varies when the measuring entity is moving at very high speeds. I thought you had some familiarity with Einstein's general and special theories of relativity which is why I mentioned the difference between Newtonian physics which well-describes what happens on this earth and Relativity physics which applies to part of the vast reaches of space - especially if we are able to travel at velocities close to the standard speed of light [speed of light in a vacuum is 186,282 miles per second (299,792 kilometers per second)]
Time does not exist as an entity. We use "time" to describe what has changed.
We always live in the present. We remember what has passed to varying degrees and we use time increments of time to describe it - such as yesterday, last week, last month. last year.
I am not intending to prove to you that God exists. That is pointless. There is no such thing as a scientific proof; however, mathematical proofs and axioms do exist. This is a description from an introduction to mathematics. "A mathematical proof is an argument which convinces other people that something is true. Math isn’t a court of law, so a “preponderance of the evidence” or “beyond any reasonable doubt” isn’t good enough. In principle we try to prove things beyond any doubt at all — although in real life people
make mistakes, and total rigor can be impractical for large projects. (There are also some subtleties in the foundations of mathematics, such as G¨odel’s theorem, but never mind.)"
In order to prove something it must be comprehensive and be able to cover all known or possible examples. Example in two-dimensional geometry the sum of all triangles is 180 degrees and every circle encompasses 360 degrees. Once we move to multi-dimensional geometry the mathematics is more complicated.
Logically, one of the following needs to be true:
1. Matter has always existed. [laws of thermodynamics mitigate against this.]
2. Nothing exists [eastern mystic view - René Descartes wrested with this.]
3. Something created all that exists. [in order to do that, the creator must be external to what was created. This is where God exists - outside of our ability to measure.
In Biblical theology, God upholds all that exists and ensures constancy which is the only reason we can actually predict anything. The laws of physics and mathematics only apply to an ordered existence.
What do you think CPT Gabe Snell LTC John Shaw LTC Stephen C. PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SSgt (Join to see) CPL Eric Escasio SrA Christopher Wright SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA SMSgt Minister Gerald A. "Doc" Thomas

The speed of light has demonstrated the capacity for variation. It may not have always been the approximately 186,000 miles a second, that it is today...

SFC (Join to see) I think you need to read this.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html

Also, I ask what exactly makes you say that "The speed of light has demonstrated the capacity for variation"? This analysis is the only thing I can find.

I do see all of this happening without a god. That's what the standard model predicts, this is also exactly what you would expect from a universe without a god. Nowhere at any point in time can you show me a benevolent creator at work. As we speak countless animals are giving their last breath from a predator, countless children suffer the horror of war, famine, disease. In the universe whole solar systems that could harbor life are being violently destroyed by supernovae, black holes and pulsars. The entirety of the universe in every single measurable way is completely indifferent to our existence.

it's also the most mind blowingly complex and incredible thing to observe. In every corner at every moment in time it is more amazing than anything that is written in a 2K year old book by 10 different people over the course of 100 years and most not even around the subjects they wrote about. Gravitational waves?!?!? say whaaaaat?!?!?!

CW3 (Join to see) - 40 different people over 1500 years on 3 continents in 4 languages.
Suffering and death is meaningless or beneficial without God. You know it is a bad thing.

Izzy Avila First question, are you Portuguese? Your names is one of Portuguese decent. But as the bible is the truth if you believe it to be. Just as the Quran is the truth for those how believe to be and the same goes with every faith out there. We can't hold one to be the universal truth without being bias. The only way you would say that is if you are in that faith. That is why I am saying that.

1LT L S First, I can't take credit for Deism. It was formed in the early days of the United States. I am just of one the few that still believes along the same lines. I am sure it has much to do with my view of Thomas Jefferson. I hold him as one of the most important Americans in history. About the start of the universe I really don't care to ponder on such things. It really can't be used to justify anything and has not real impact on what is happening today. I do believe that there is an all powerful God. I don't think it is impossible to believe that he did it but then again it wouldn't have any impact on my views. I don't want to get caught on being a theorist on something that I really an't conceptualize. I like where you are going with the math equation. I do think along those lines in relations to life and how things will turn out. God being all powerful transcends time. He can do pretty much anything. When one becomes a life in this world it is like reading a huge math equation from left to right and solving it as you go. At the end you will die. Your choices really don't and can't alter that. But the whole point of free will is that it is only you that adds the variables to it. Nonetheless you will still die. You may see things as being supernatural at times but I am not so sure about that. It is merely chance at work. If you were to win the lottery out of 11 million people who played it you could claim God helped you win. I wouldn't say that. I would say that by the probability of it all someone had to win. If one was to claim God did it but then they don't claim God gave them the misfortunes that comes with it.

I think Islam has a lot of concepts right in religion. I really admire them. For example, the term we so often hear is Allah Akbar. That term means God is Great. But they use it whenever they feel that God has acted in their lifes. Terrorists use it when they attack. But is also used in cases of disaster. I saw a video when I was doing my studies where a horrific accident happened. Civilians died but everyone was yelling Allah Akbar. I didn't understand why they would do such a thing. I came to find out that they give credit to God for everything. He is to be praised for any and everything. Even the bad. In Christianity we don't do this. We only give credit to God for the good but blame the Devil for the bad. Who are we to decide the intent of God. If he controls everything they he made that tragedy happen. Or in my view it was just a factor was going to happen that humans part the variables in place for it to happen.

Hi Eric, I am just now having the opportunity to respond.

To answer your first question, I'm Puerto Rican.

Is Christainity true, is Islam? Do "our biaises" (or preferences) really determine what is true?

Before I respond to the questions/ comments in your last two posts, I'd Like to spend some time responding to your first post regarding absolute or universal truth, which you appear to reject. I'd like to begin the discussion by first disagreeing with your premise. To delve into the validity or merits of deism, christianity, or islam is really moot if we don't first have some clarity about the distinctions and implications of moral relativism, which is a worldview that you seem to be espousing: "What's 'true' for you is true for you and what's 'true' for me is also true... in short, our biases or preferences determine what's true." (again, I would disagree with this premise).

Moral Relativism, the view that when it comes to moral issues (or religion) there are no universally objective right or wrong answers, no inappropriate or appropriate judgments, and no rational ways by which to make moral distinctions that apply in every time, in every place, and to every person. Some people who espouse moral relativism seem to be saying that only subjective opinions exist, which are no different from one's feeling about a favorite football team, movie, or ice cream flavor.

Although it is quite appealing in a culture whose elites instruct us to be "tolerant", "open minded", and "nonjudgmental" (even though, ironically, such values are inconsistent with moral relativism), people who embrace this view rarely take it to its logical conclusion...

For to deny the existence of universally objective moral distinctions, one must admit that Mother Teresa was no more or less moral than Adolf Hitler: "What's 'true' for Mother Teresa was true for her and what's 'true' for Adolf Hilter is also true".

Because I am more interested in clarity than agreement, I'd like to ask you, would you say that you indeed agree with the worldview that Moral Relativism teaches?

Izzy Avila I think you may be leading away from the point that I trying to make. I am not sure how it really plays into the role in which I am trying to express.

I understand what is Moral relativism is. Just to clarify something really quick Deism isn't really a faith. It is based on rational thought and devoid of spiritual concepts. So if you ask if I believe in what is good and what is bad I may even agree with you. But I may not be agreeing with based on the same logic. I view all faiths that have some basic understandings of what is right and just. I don't need a deity to tell me it is right to feed the hungry and cloth the poor. It is what is right. I even use some of the teachings of the Bible. If you have read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis it elaborates on this a bit. By nature man is predisposed to know what is right and wrong. You can look at the undisturbed tribes of remote areas and see that all had a crude understanding of what right and what is wrong. This is why Native Americans didn't out right kill Europeans when they showed up. They didn't have the same God but there was a universal truth to what is or isn't right. I at not time didn't say there is a God. I think there is a God. He should be worshiped as he is all powerful. He even sent prophets to Earth and his Son. But do I think that God effect every moment of your life. No. He will let good and bad happen. I don't believe in this intercessionary role as many Christians do.

I can't see who your so I can't read what you write either. Lol thanks for your comment.

LCDR (Join to see) , you're about a day late and a dollar short on this topic. I've already told SPC (Join to see) how sorry I am for my negative comments. Did you even bother to see my public apology on RP? This, once again, is all I have to write about this subject. SPC (Join to see) and I shook hands and are ok now.

SPC (Join to see) , thank you for the up vote. Keith

Though you say "fact" and someone else has already questioned you on it, you still have yet to prove what was factual about any god.

Your stories through your your timeline are amazing, but none of them prove that there is a god.

If you argue that these amazing things couldn't have happened without a god, than you are wrong. Life in itself is amazing. That's why it's called life.

Remarkable and unspeakable things happen in our lives. By the hands of mankind and nature. Not by some false deity.

Don't question me in what I know is factual either, for I do not have a belief and I believe what can be proven.

I did intend to take a longer break, so you got me on that one. As far as my hostility, it was there. I've admitted to having a lack of respect for the beliefs of others. I've tried to be more even-handed in my responses. I think an idea should be able to stand on its own merit. Do I believe everyone has the right to hold true an idea, and proclaim it from the mountain-top? Absolutely! And I do accept that they believe what they do, even why. But I don't accept that this is the best way to live, and I'll never accept someone claiming a truth that is impossible to verify or verifiably false.. If I did, I would be living that way myself.

Well, maybe I'm weird. I have emotions, but I don't feel like I have this need to satisfy them, somehow. I believe people have hope. I know hope to be irrelevant to whether a claim is factual or not. And I can back up that claim.

People believe many things just because they want to, I agree. I'm telling people that's wrong and why. In an instance when people give reason for their beliefs, I examine that.

There's something else I'm not understanding: Is this not a platform for others to publicly communicate with others? If your only qualm with my participation is that I have a similar response to multiple comments, why not just ignore my posts?

Capt (Join to see) I'm no victim, sir. If another disagrees with me, I'd be glad to hear why. That's why I participate in the forums. But this time, I was simply responding to your question why/how I believe the world would be improved if religion did not exist. You asked, I answered. I'm sure you believe differently, and I would be happy to here why.

If I knew of a better way to respond to OP or the subsequent replies, I would have replied that way. So, naturally I disagree with people that believe differently. I'm sorry if my expressing this difference in reasoning offends you somehow. Really.

I welcome your hostility if you feel it's appropriate. If you prefer me to calm down, I'll try. If you're gone, I appreciate your thoughts, sir. Take care.

SPC (Join to see) With all due respect you complained that people pick on you because of your beliefs. Here you claim that you do not believe anything that can't be proven. I responded to your to your behavior and statements. And your do believe in things that can' be proven when you believe that God does not exist.

Capt (Join to see) "you complained that people pick on you because of your beliefs" I don't believe I've been picked on, and I don't believe I've been singled out by RP in general by any means, especially regarding my beliefs or lack thereof. If I said something to that effect, I apologize, and retract it. I feel as though I participated in interesting and personal discussions. I'm sure if anyone levied a criticism against me personally, I would respond; it's my nature. But, I don't feel persecuted by any means. I've enjoyed the discussion on this forum, and RP in general. I like you guys and gals.

As with you, I've failed in my attempts to communicate. It's like my thoughts get lost between my brain and the comment button, because it's just really difficult for most people to understand what exactly I'm trying to communicate. The fault MUST lie with me, because it happens a lot, IRL too. Something I'll have to keep working on, I guess.

I feel like (not saying this is true) that people aren't reading what I post. Like they have formulated a response immediately following their previous post, and what I type is irrelevant.

Tsgt Hunter Logan suggested that you read again what you posted. I don't know if you did that. And, I know that when we read what we have posted we tend to read what we think we have posted. Perhaps you need to have another person read your posts aloud.

I can assure you I do not prejudge what I think you wrote. I hope you are right in saying that it sometimes does not come through as you intended.