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Posted in these groups: 
Leadership
Promotions
Leadership Promotions
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
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Date of rank still means something as it pertains to longevity. Not on a pay scale type of longevity.... It is important to help determine when you are eligible for next promotion if nothing else. Also, with that trend of thought, if there are 2 members that are otherwise equal, select the one that is senior as that person is closer to promotion (based on date). Just my $0.02....
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I once witnessed an argument between two LT Cols. It got fairly heated and the senior (I assume he was senior) asked "What is your date of rank Col?"
The answer ended the argument. "6'2" and 210 lbs, what's yours?"
The answer ended the argument. "6'2" and 210 lbs, what's yours?"
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LTC (Join to see)
Sometimes - you just have to reach down into your lunchbox and pull out that "can o' whoopass".
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Capt (Join to see) - Usually I found date of rank determined who was in charge but I've experience a few exceptions when i was put in charge over some others more than once as they had more confidence in Me than those individuals even though they had the time in grade advantage. That wasn't My decision though but made from those Senior to Me. I've even had one case I outranked an individual and was placed in charge over him.
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There's a huge difference in an E6 who has been in for 4 years and one who has been in for 13 with 5 or more years time in grade.
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SSG(P) D. Wright Downs
Date of Rank is important in protocol situations. It is also important when it comes to making assignments within a group situation such in an office environment. There are also those who get up set when one person is put in charge over another. Date of Rank is one way of using fairness.
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MCPO Roger Collins
You pretty well have it SSG D. Wright Downs. I have been in a number of assignments where I held positions superior to others of senior rank, and have had assignments the were the opposite. (Didn't much like the second type). Lots of factors, but there are times that rank has to take a back seat.
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SSG(P) D. Wright Downs
I agree. I twice had to perform duties 3 ranks up for extended periods. On the second time, when the person of the rank came in to fill the slot, he was not capable of doing the job. Since it was in a major Command, I continued to doing his work and mine. He did not fall in step and pick it up. Finially, when a new officer came in and bragged he had a SGM, I stopped doing double duty, and let him carry the responsibility of his senior enlisted person. I found there were places where the new officer needed assistance, too. He was very abrupt when I gently made suggestions since it was his first time in the job. My expertise was not going to be there forever and when it was being ignored, I decided it was time to take leave I had accrued. I had earned an MSM and got Wegewood. Prior to that I had worked were out standing people in that command.
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MGySgt James Forward
You won't see any Marines making SSgt at 4 years TIS, DOR and TIS is always going to be the determining factors for the SNCO promotion zones. Just took a look at the last SSGT Promotion results; TIS ranged from 2007-2011 (9 to 5 years) and TIG ranged from 2011 to 2014 (4 to 2 years). Many MOS were closed to promotions so those will have many senior Sgts waiting. This is the main promotion zone only, the above zone runs much higher in TIS/TIG. Not really a valid question for military folks to even ponder. Don't matter to civilians at all. Semper Fi.
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Date of Rank still bears some significance when establishing promotion potential or assignment. Likewise, it should bear effect on evaluations, as I don't think a freshly promoted E-5 just assigned to a squad leader position would have the same experience as someone that has served in the same positions for such a time.
Otherwise, I don't think it carried quite the significance for the most part among peers. It may be used in jest, but I've yet to see someone say "AHHA, but I outrank you by DOR!!!"
If they did, they would likely be looking for a quick throat punch.
v/r,
CPT Butler
Otherwise, I don't think it carried quite the significance for the most part among peers. It may be used in jest, but I've yet to see someone say "AHHA, but I outrank you by DOR!!!"
If they did, they would likely be looking for a quick throat punch.
v/r,
CPT Butler
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SGM (Join to see)
Among officers, West Point has earliest DOR, followed by ROTC, OCS, Direct Commission; hence just as with enlisted corps one might be considered earlier for promotion, command, etc.
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SSG(P) D. Wright Downs
And, do not for get this when seating people for ceremonies. When I worked in PAO in major commands, this was very important concerning change of commands nad other ceremonies where there would be General officers from Corps or higher. We had all their information and it was used in seating---and do not seat anyone higher than a Captain behind a tent pole if the ceremony was held outside and there was a hint of rain.
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MGySgt James Forward
SGM (Join to see) - I don't think that is entirely correct, US Code 741 Rank states the procedures for DOR which is set by the Service Secretaries. No where does the the Academy, college, ROTC come into the equation. Officers have a precedence # that racks and stacks them by year group and DOR. Seniority is based only upon DOR and TIS. Sorry Ring Knockers, it's only a ring. Semper Fi.
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Date of rank is important for pay, as well as where you are in your professional career.
A captain who just pinned on is (usually) not the same as a captain who is being looked at for major after 7 years experience.
In looking at individuals for different jobs, I want to know how long they have been their current rank, it helps me get a feel for their experience. Of course I will still talk with them, but date of rank gives expectations.
In terms of figuring out who is the 'ranking' individual, I haven't seen this much being necessary, usually it is based on the job, not necessarily the date of rank.
A captain who just pinned on is (usually) not the same as a captain who is being looked at for major after 7 years experience.
In looking at individuals for different jobs, I want to know how long they have been their current rank, it helps me get a feel for their experience. Of course I will still talk with them, but date of rank gives expectations.
In terms of figuring out who is the 'ranking' individual, I haven't seen this much being necessary, usually it is based on the job, not necessarily the date of rank.
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SGM (Join to see)
LTC Purvis, yes indeed...and also for drawing the cut off line for promotion zones. However, West Point DOR is first, followed by ROTC, Direct Commissions.
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LTC (Join to see)
SGM (Join to see), I had heard about those distinctions, but as a December Grad from ROTC I never really looked it.
Of course I did see other officers with different dates in the same month for their promotions, but since I've been offset, never really was concerned with it.
06 Dec - 2LT
23? JAN - 1LT (think it was linked to when I came on Active Duty)
01 Feb - CPT
01 DEC - MAJ
01 Nov - LTC
Of course I did see other officers with different dates in the same month for their promotions, but since I've been offset, never really was concerned with it.
06 Dec - 2LT
23? JAN - 1LT (think it was linked to when I came on Active Duty)
01 Feb - CPT
01 DEC - MAJ
01 Nov - LTC
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All comments above discuss pay, promotion, etc but forget about evaluations. As a Division Chief, I supervise 3 LTC's who have date of rank on me and by regulations I can rate them. But who wants to be rated by an officer junior to them. So in the end date of rank does matter.
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Date of Rank is not outdated and when computing retirement points and benefits it still plays an important role. I also believe someone who just got promoted is not an equal of the crusty old E-x or O-x whatever.
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MAJ David Vermillion
Every rank has a date of rank, how do you get a rank without a date of rank. Even if they just threw dates of rank out there, you would have a date of rank. It does serve a purpose. My point is we need them.
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I have seen it used (AF wise) to determine who is going to be NCOIC in a shop with two people the same rank.
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Instead of date of rank, shouldn't key leader positions be slotted by leadership potential? Experience is extremely important, but if I have to choose between 2 E4's on who is going to be a team leader, DOR may play in, but it is not the sole discriminator.
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I don't care if I outrank people. But date of rank matters because someone has to outrank the others or a military hierarchy of rank structure will fall apart. Rank has no meaning if everyone of the same rank have the same status. Someone must be the directed leader.
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It is... what it is. Most times it matters not, unless you make a big deal of it, but there are instances when it matters... Like how is senior, who will be responsible etc.. It that is not already clearly defined. I don't think it matters more now, or less now. It is just one of those things.
Take MACOM staff section, branch, division... The Chiefs are not selected by a board (HQDA) like we are for command, but someone still needs to be in charge (the chief). Generally, that is the senior person. Unity of command matters in most every aspect of the Army.
Take MACOM staff section, branch, division... The Chiefs are not selected by a board (HQDA) like we are for command, but someone still needs to be in charge (the chief). Generally, that is the senior person. Unity of command matters in most every aspect of the Army.
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Not sure how I'd vote. I'm a firm believer that your actions should determine your promotion potential. Date of Rank should be the last thing a promotion board considers. Pay wise? Well, that's a bit sticky isn't it?
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Not at all.
There is payscale issues, since an E7 at 10 years and an E7 at 18 years should be compensated completely differently. Yes, I have met both.
Additionally, at lower ranks, it is one of the quickest ways to tell who is in charge. At higher ranks, it doesn't come up as often, but take a "working party" of several hundred Marines. I was at the range, one time, and they asked who the senior man was. We looked for the Sgts first, none present. Then the dozen or so Cpls did a quick assessment. At the time I had something like 24 months, and the senior guy was at 30 (there was no one between us). They split the Marines between us, and set us to work.
Also, for Marines, we get promotion points for Time in Grade. 5 points/month as part of our composite score for LCpl to Cpl, and Cpl to Sgt.
There is payscale issues, since an E7 at 10 years and an E7 at 18 years should be compensated completely differently. Yes, I have met both.
Additionally, at lower ranks, it is one of the quickest ways to tell who is in charge. At higher ranks, it doesn't come up as often, but take a "working party" of several hundred Marines. I was at the range, one time, and they asked who the senior man was. We looked for the Sgts first, none present. Then the dozen or so Cpls did a quick assessment. At the time I had something like 24 months, and the senior guy was at 30 (there was no one between us). They split the Marines between us, and set us to work.
Also, for Marines, we get promotion points for Time in Grade. 5 points/month as part of our composite score for LCpl to Cpl, and Cpl to Sgt.
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I don't know about in the Army. But in the Corps if there are two Marines, one of them outranks the other, DOR is one discriminator.
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It should be used very sparingly and when used should be for promotion/responsibilities as a last result. Just because you have existed in a rank does not make your more or less qualified. The results of you work make you more or less qualified.
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I don't agree with what the no says. I think when it come to promotion or putting someone in charge it matters. If you have 2 E-4's or what ever and they are both good at what they do and its going to piss them off who you choose then use date of rank.
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It does show experience in a giving pay grade. New versus long in the tooth.
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MAJ (Join to see)
In a rank-structured culture, it is a necessary evil. What would you propose replacing it with? I say it has worked just fine thus far.
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I don't know anyone that actuallyuses Date of Rank to tell someone that is he same rank as I am to do something. Though most that I work with understand that the authority of your position out weighs the rank on your sleeve/lappel. So really the only time it really matters is for promotion date once selected it (in the Air Force anyway).
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It does make a difference when it comes to promotions (sequence numbers), so it's important in that regard.
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SFC Boots Attaway
CW5 (Join to see) , it is also handy when 2 SMs of the same rank find themselves in a situation where one needs to take charge of a situation with no ranking NCO or officer is around or able to give guidance.
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