Should PFCs stand at "Parade Rest" for a SPC?

LOL SFC (Join to see)

1SG (Join to see) , you want to join me?

I will do what I'm told SFC (Join to see)

I would have voted but I was too afraid to go to the online polling place...

I actually held the rank of Master Private for a day. My 1SG cut the first 2 stripes off and E-8 insignia and made me wear it one day. Not even sure what I did to get it. I have it in my shadow box.

I was promoted to General at Air Assault School as a Captain.. the NCO Instructors put a big white chalk star on my helmet because they said "Sir you are general F&^% U* Sir!"

LOL, I had to briefly serve as a MG in CAS3. I was phenomenal :)

SFC Mark Merino , I did too, but that doesn't mean that we were right. By Regulation anyways...

I always did as well. I did it that way for everyone so I never messed up no matter who I was in front of. I think it helps Soldiers (junior enlisted) to always practice courtesy, even among each other. Hopefully that SPC will be an NCO one day and that PFC will probably be a SPC and over night he/she will be expected too stand at parade rest. If it's done consistently a Soldier will perform as a Soldier consistently, but I am aware of the regulation. I guess a Soldier that takes pride in the fact that they are wearing a U.S. Army uniform will take pride in themselves as a Soldier.

Your memory serves you correctly Sir, and as I stated in my post a SPC is not a NCO.

Lieutenants saluting each other is like virtue among whores. So I was told when I asked this question when I was a new 2LT.

Here is another question that has to do with history and drill and ceremony Where is the place of honor in a formation, why and where did it historically start? Hint Rome

A SPC is not an NCO. I agree with you completely! Should there be respect if the SPC is in charge? Of course. But none of this parade rest! NCOs are a special group of Soldiers, etc. They should be treated as such.

lol @ MSgt Bj Jones. Fresh out of OCS I came across an older looking SPC. From my vantage point as I was approaching I mistook the rank for LTC. I rendered a quick salute and he saluted back with a "As you were Lieutenant" Still my funniest military experience. I'm sure it wasn't the first time for him.

I hve seen this two,..not directly but I have seen it with others..

SPC 5s and 6s were for the more technical jobs back when they had them. I'm pretty sure a CPL was an NCO when you served because it is the most junior NCO rank.

Well, believe it or not, I had a SPC 7 come into our dispensary while I was with Alpha Co. 326 Med Bn at Camp Eagle I CORPS.

I kept staring at him since a) he was an old-timer with SPC 7 stripes and b) was wearing the utility/stateside uniform the guys wore when they were first coming to Vietnam.

I kept thinking he had forgotten he was supposed to go home, probably long ago.

But the strange part was that he was blind in one eye, meaning I could not patch his other eye but instead had to use a tiny bandaid.

When I asked him his MOS ("What kind of job do you have here in VN, being blind in one eye?"), he explained he was a Chief of Smoke (Chief of Firing Batteries) which again blew my mind since months before, while I was with the 25th ID down by Cu Chi, we had a 105mm (102mm) round land on our battery area one day.

Seemed the COS from one of our other batteries (2nd/77th FA) had given mistaken co-ordinates to his gun bunnies. He was also blind in one eye (relevant or not).

But the strangest thing about this was when thirty years later I was talking to a smelter manager in Ohio, I think, who told me that not only was he also a former Chief of Smoke, he also was blind in one eye.

I am not making this up.

Anyway, yeah, there were SPC 6's and even a SPC 7 back then.

Well I believe this should answer the corporal being an NCO debate.... NCO school was not only not part of becoming a corporal, but it was when you were a corporal or a spc 4 that you would get to go to NCO school in order to make SGT. So how could you be a NCO if you never attended NCO school? (other than an "acting Jack" as we used to call it, but that was not official).

I am open to being wrong on this and will admit so if someone has the definitive answer. But otherwise I'm going with no NCO school, no NCO designation. You can call it JR. if you want but that's not official.

I know in the United States Marine Corps Corporals run shit hehehehehe Oohrah and Semper Fi..................

Why not? We're told "put so-and-so on X-task." A lot of times, especially in today's army, if you're not an NCO, juniors don't respect you flat out. It's a professionalism thing, in my opinion.

Reserved for the officer ranks, both commissioned and non commissioned. E1-E4 are not officers of the armed
Forces. Understand?

SFC Eric Williams - I completely understand that and agree that it is traditionally reserved as such.

1SG, I agree with the lateral appointment. Keeps folks tracking for success.

I was taught this lesson by a former platoon Sgt of mine back when I was a mosquito wing who went on to become a 1SG.....

Respect is definitely a key component to this discussion. However, I do not feel that respect can ONLY be conveyed from a PFC to a SPC by standing at Parade Rest.

Yes, agreed, but I think you may have missed my point. If by the actions that the SPC displays day in and day out, emulates Leadership that lower enlisted Soldiers look up to and want to reflect then that SPC wouldn't have to ask/tell the PFC to stand at Parade Rest, he would have done it out of respect for the Soldier because of his character and leadership attributes and not just because he is an SPC. It's just my take on it. I'm not saying it's right for the SPC to tell a lower enlisted to do that.

Richard, the point I am trying to make is this... doctrine is doctrine. It is not what the U.S. Army uses (unless it has changed in the last seven years) to determine whether it is right or wrong to have Soldiers of lesser rank stand at parade rest when addressing a SPC. Actually, I think the Ranger Regiments routinely have subordinates of SPCs stand at parade rest when addressing SPCs. And as you state above, the FM provides clear guidance on the subject, and thus, my point, that it is only guidance and can be either followed or not, which regulations are not guidance but have to be followed or if altered by a unit, the alteration has to be more stringent than the regulation. The point I was making about UCMJ is you can't administer it based on the guidance from doctrine. When I was on active duty, I relied on my Non-Commissioned Officers to keep me straight on these matters. I would ask them if there is an Army Regulation (AR) that regulates customs and traditions. Thus far, no NCO has come on the net to confirm or deny the existence of such an AR. Therefore, as a unit commander I would either follow the doctrine or have a SOP just like the Ranger Regiments if this is what I thought was necessary to maintain and sustain discipline among the ranks. Now, I personally believe having PVTS or PFCs addressing SPCs at parade rest is not necessary in Cavalry or Armor units.

Fully understand Sir and got your point. There is no regulation just this FM.

LTC Mark Gavula , I appreciate your input on this subject sir. It is just Doctrine as previously stated. I have responded that in the absence of a specified unit policy or directive regarding this issue, enlisted Soldiers should fall back on the Doctrine and execute accordingly.

SFC (P) Gilley, SFC from the Grand Rapid Armed Forces Reserve Complex, TX and all the NCOs that have been reading the comments/opinions on this topic. I have repeatedly stated that doctrine is a guide. I stated that you can't use UCMJ on someone who fails to execute doctrine as written, I stated that unit SOP or policy can direct PVTs, PFCs to stand at parade rest when addressing a SPC as in Ranger Regiments and asked what regulation covered this subject. I learned early in my career as a young dumbass cavalry platoon leader to ask my right hand man, my PSG for guidance and council especially when it came to question like this. Back in 1985, my SFC platoon sergeant had 17 years TIS, was not only technically and tactically proficient but was very mature militarily. He told me to always ask a NCO. Since he told me that I, when given the time, (METT-T dependent) I always asked my NCO not SGT what he thought or for a COA to solve a problem. I did this as a staff offer, S4, S3, SXO, SCO etc and I continue to do it today. In this case I knew there was more than doctrine to cover this subject. You all were right but did not do your homework. I asked CSM (Ret) George DeSario former Thunderbolt 7 and Fort Knox CSM and I would Have asked SMA(ret) KJack Tilley if I had to for the regulation that covered this. The regulations are AR 600-25, AR 600-20. Everyone had the right answer but could not back it up with an AR. Please, don't let your officer down and say there is no regulation but only doctrine. There is a reason why SFCs are PSGs. This is the first time in an NCOs career where he is paired with an officer, a 2LT. He is to teach and train, to advise and counsel. Why is there a 1SG and CSM. Those officers depend and trust you for your advice and counsel, don't let them down. Why do you think some officers don't trust NCOs? It is because early in there career an NCO let them down someway or somehow. I was fortunate and I trust NCOs.

CPT Mike M. , I am with you on both counts sir.

Agreed.

Might help the relationship after....sounds like ass-kissing. If the relationship was good, it would be good before that promotion. It it wasnt, its likely going to get worse.