Posted on Jul 25, 2016
Why has the Vietnam Campaign Medal (RVNCM) attachment never been updated?
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The official attachent (device) for an RVNCM has the date 1960 with a dash after it and then a space. The thought is that the device would eventually be updated to include the date of the end of the war, but this never happened. Isn't it time to finish the job and update this medal? It may be a small thing, but it seems disrepectful to me to leave this medal incomplete.
Vietnam War
Medals
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
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Probably because it was established by the Government of the Republic of Vietnam, a nation that no longer exists.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
You know the difference between the Palm that is on the Individual Award and the Tree Branch that is on the Unit Award? NOT A DAMN THING! The Distributors that the U.S Military used did not have a small Palm in stock when they needed to start sending the Unit Ribbons out so they substituted the tree branch for the Palm and it has never been corrected by he US Government. After the Fall of Saigon President Nguyen Van Thieu was interviewed in Paris, one of the Questions concerned the discrepancies of the medal and Ribbons to US Service personnel. He said "there was no difference between the Individual Medal and the Unit Ribbon, Except bad suppliers. The Unit Ribbon is the Ribbon for the Individual medal but with a Frame." It seems after investigation, the US Military used a Japanese supplier for the initial Unit Award Ribbons. Hence the culprit is unmasked. The same goes for the RVN Civil Actions Unit Citation. It should have a Palm and not a tree branch. For what it's worth... there is a little history for you.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
SFC William Farrell - Yep, in fact I have that medal but then so did all 620 men in our unit. It sounds more impressive than it actually is. That medal can be purchased but it was not issued by the US Government as a foreign decoration. The same hold true for the Viet Nam campaign medal. Both are listed however on the Military Personnel record (I have the printout of that ) and also on My DD Form 214. As foreign decorations though they are lowest in the order of precedence after all US decorations on Your display of ribbons or hanging medals. I was issued all the hanging medals, the ribbons with them but had to purchase the two foreign decorations I have.
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They can add the end date after the last Vietnam Vet dies. Sadly, the war followed us home and continued here. Many are still fighting it. I know that I occasionally run into some old peacenik who is wont to belabor the point with me.
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Cpl Lawrence Lavictoire
I was playing a card game on the internet and chatted with a player. I mentioned I was in PhuBai VietNam an they called me, " baby killing piece of &*%#@! That sure brought back some sick, sad memories to me!!!!!!!!!
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I just read that the 1960 device was supposed to have the end date of the war when South Vietnam triumphed over North Vietnam. However, with the collapse and surrender of South Vietnam that date will remain blank. The award was issued by the South Vietnamese government which no longer exists, so the United States government does not have the authority to fix it.
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I may be totally off base here, CPO Jon Campbell, but this was a foreign medal, awarded by the former South Vietnamese government. Seems like it would be the foreign government's province to update the clasp, but if that government doesn't really exist any longer, who's to update it? The medal was awarded under the authority of the Chief of the Joint General Staff, Republic of Vietnam Armed Forces. CPT Jack Durish LTC (Join to see)
Here's part of the answer, SPC Jeff Daley, PhD.
Here's part of the answer, SPC Jeff Daley, PhD.
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LTC Stephen C.
I can't speak as to what the government of the present day Socialist Republic of Vietnam would do, SGT Eliyahu Rooff. The U.S. government has articulated their position via The Institute of Heraldry, which I've quoted immediately above your question.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
SGT Eliyahu Rooff - Read what you wrote... Do you actually expect a Communist regime to do something that a Former Republic started while fighting against them? The first thing they did when they took over the Republic of South Vietnam was to engage in genocide of all they could find who was sympathetic to the old Republic and the United States. Its quite funny now because when you walk through Vietnam Today, peple will come up to you when they recognize you as an American, and thank you for all that America did to help the Republic. If it sounds like I am talking about Star Wars, the similarity has struck many people as well.
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff
PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM - Given that Vietnam has become a major trading partner with the US, it's quite conceivable.
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
It will never happen since it is still a Communist regime. It has wiped out all remnants of the old Republic and it is not spoken of at all.
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I know through family that my father was in Viet Nam or possibly Laos during a period of his Army service however he passed away in 99 and other than items brought back from there I have no way to get a copy of his DD214, do you to a fire at a warehouse in the 70s. As a cold war veteran I cannot apply to the VFW myself, however with proof that my father was there I wouldn't have an issue. I'm wondering if anyone knows how I can prove that he was there. If anyone has any ideas please let me know. COL Mikel J. Burroughs,Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen,SFC William Farrell,SFC (Join to see),SPC Jeff Daley, PhD,SPC Adina (Fawn Mac) McKenzie,SPC Ken Harper,SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT,SGT Francis Wright,SGT Kirk Smith,SPC Woody Bullard,Maj Rev. Fr. Samuel WATERS - Traditional RC Priest,LTC (Join to see)
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SPC Ken Harper
Another possibility is the funeral home who conducted the services for your dad. They won't request, and funeral honors won't be provided, without a 214. I've dealt with some of them who've been able to provide a copy of an old Discharge a couple decades after the funeral was conducted.
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Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen
Ya, not sure what they were telling folks when you dad got out but seems like recording your DD-214 at Clerk of Circuit Court has been around for a while. Worth checking courthouse at his home or wherever he went when first got out.
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The RVNCM is a foreign award. For the Republic of Vietnam, the war ended with their demise.
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As some have said the war is not over for those who fought there, and it will go on forever in one form or another. Some can get closure by taking a trip back there with a tour group to visit old battlefields and statues erected to victory by NVN. The war ended for the little nation of South Vietnam, but never ended for US because we didn't win. The war just petered out but didn't end.
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PO1 Tony Holland
Before I read the earlier responses I thought it was because of the POW/MIA question.
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That medal should be a constant reminder to the US Government that they ran out on the South Vietnamese Government after withdrawing but promising support that was never given. The South Vietnamese Military had weapons without ammo to defend against an invading, well equipped North Vietnamese Army that violated the Paris peace accords and invaded anyway. The US failed to help in any way, they just left the South to fend for itself. Would any of You stand with an empty weapon to face an invading Army ? The credibility of the United States to live up to its word and commitments was gone. That was never restored in the eyes of other nations until Ronald Reagan assumed the Officer of the President of the United States and restored the pride and Credibility of the nation which had been lost due to that failure. Until then many nations thought the US would run out on them just as they had the Republic of South Viet Nam.
There were also the factors of greed, contractors making hug amounts of money as long as the war continued. The connection of contractors to certain high ranking US officials meant Millions in profits for those people, they were in no hurry to leave. Another item, the MACV (military assistance Command, Vietnam ) rules of engagement made it very difficult to fight a war which was also micro-managed in Washington by President Johnson and the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara who called the battlefield shots and decided what would and what would not be attacked. One of those major contractors RMK-BRJ was a consortium of six Texas Contractors that were friends of Lyndon B. Johnson and a company, Pacific Architects and Engineers whose ownership He turned over to Lady Bird Johnson so She owned the company and not him was a major Subcontractor of RMK-BRJ It may also be added that the RMK-BRJ consortium had also been used by LJB when He was Governor of Texas and were old buddies of His. RMK=BRJ was completing tasks that both Navy Sea Bees and Air Force Red Horse units were completely capable of doing and were doing until these contractors showed up in Viet Nam. There was no money to be made though if the Military did the work. This added years to a conflict that could have been ended in 4 to 6 months.It seems everywhere I looked in Viet Nam as a Viet Nam Vet, RMK-BRJ had showed up. It was almost impossible to go anywhere there and not see that company in their major construction projects. The anti war press and the anti War demonstrators also are not free of blame, their despicable, ill informed conduct cut support for the war and left the South Vietnamese and the US Military out to dry. The job was never finished, just run out on by the Nixon Administration. Seems some things that were corrected later in the post post Reagan era regressed back to what had been. In the long run it seems very little has changed except for not blaming the Military for what politicians had done.
We should remember that reminder of the unfinished war. Keep in mind also with North Korea that war never ended, that is a cease fire and a DMZ at the 38th parallel and that country still divided by North and South. Not the same situation, We didn't run out on South Korea but still unfinished business.
There were also the factors of greed, contractors making hug amounts of money as long as the war continued. The connection of contractors to certain high ranking US officials meant Millions in profits for those people, they were in no hurry to leave. Another item, the MACV (military assistance Command, Vietnam ) rules of engagement made it very difficult to fight a war which was also micro-managed in Washington by President Johnson and the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara who called the battlefield shots and decided what would and what would not be attacked. One of those major contractors RMK-BRJ was a consortium of six Texas Contractors that were friends of Lyndon B. Johnson and a company, Pacific Architects and Engineers whose ownership He turned over to Lady Bird Johnson so She owned the company and not him was a major Subcontractor of RMK-BRJ It may also be added that the RMK-BRJ consortium had also been used by LJB when He was Governor of Texas and were old buddies of His. RMK=BRJ was completing tasks that both Navy Sea Bees and Air Force Red Horse units were completely capable of doing and were doing until these contractors showed up in Viet Nam. There was no money to be made though if the Military did the work. This added years to a conflict that could have been ended in 4 to 6 months.It seems everywhere I looked in Viet Nam as a Viet Nam Vet, RMK-BRJ had showed up. It was almost impossible to go anywhere there and not see that company in their major construction projects. The anti war press and the anti War demonstrators also are not free of blame, their despicable, ill informed conduct cut support for the war and left the South Vietnamese and the US Military out to dry. The job was never finished, just run out on by the Nixon Administration. Seems some things that were corrected later in the post post Reagan era regressed back to what had been. In the long run it seems very little has changed except for not blaming the Military for what politicians had done.
We should remember that reminder of the unfinished war. Keep in mind also with North Korea that war never ended, that is a cease fire and a DMZ at the 38th parallel and that country still divided by North and South. Not the same situation, We didn't run out on South Korea but still unfinished business.
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The Republic of Vietnams' government no longer exists, so there's no one to update. I don't believe we're authorized to modify another country's awards....
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I did know it was issued by South Vietnam that no longer exists,but find it fitting that there is no ending date on the medal since for many of us Vietnam vets the war goes on forever in our shared memories,my very small rack of awards and medals are in a storage area I don't have to see or display them,but know what they mean to me and the men I had the honor to serve with.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
I have worn the service ribbons with My Air Force Uniform and continue to wear them on My American Legion uniform. As to the hanging medals, they are still in the issues boxes they came in, when I pass on I'll leave them to My oldest son. I had nothing else to do with the hanging medals, I have never worn them and don't intend to.
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