Posted on Nov 13, 2015
How many of us had trouble distinguishing the rank of approaching commissioned, non-commissioned or warrant officers on field uniforms??
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Fatigue, battledress and other work and combat uniforms had subdued rank most of the time. Some ranks are very distinctive such as Captain [double bars], Colonel [eagle], and General Officer [black star or multiple]. However 1st LT and Warrant Officer looked very close and sometimes Majors and Lieutenant Colonels looked very close especially in the rain, snow, etc.
When I was a private in the 1970s I couldn't tell sometimes if a LT or a Chief Warrant Officer was approaching me. I would salute usually and wasn't sure at that time if I was supposed to salute Warrant Officers.
Did you have trouble recognizing officer rank?
When I was a private in the 1970s I couldn't tell sometimes if a LT or a Chief Warrant Officer was approaching me. I would salute usually and wasn't sure at that time if I was supposed to salute Warrant Officers.
Did you have trouble recognizing officer rank?
Rank
Troops
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 125
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I never had an issue when Army officers wore the shiny stuff on their headgear.
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LTC Stephen F.
Thanks for responding MSG (Join to see) Shiny rank insignia in garrison was worn on OD Green uniforms back in the day.
Here is an image with members if my infantry platoon at Graf in 1981.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Tom Brown CW5 (Join to see) SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SGT John " Mac " McConnell SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright Cpl Joshua Caldwell
Here is an image with members if my infantry platoon at Graf in 1981.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Tom Brown CW5 (Join to see) SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SGT John " Mac " McConnell SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright Cpl Joshua Caldwell
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Just make the ranks a little larger. They are difficult to make out in most cases.
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I saluted everyone. Easier to get an ass chewing from an enlisted soldier if I saluted him then to not salute an officer. The sergeant he just chewed you out with a one liner like "I work for a living son", the officer on the other hand told me about the history of the salute as if it was important to me at the time and made me late for a formation! Thank you very much sir! LOL
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LTC Stephen F.
Thanks for responding SFC Jim Ruether. It seems the officer respected you while the sergeant belittled commissioned officers. Most of the NCOS I worked with were respectful while a few were self-centered bad-apples.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi LTC (Join to see) LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Jeff S. CPT Jack Durish MSG Dan Walther MSgt Robert C Aldi SFC Stephen King MSgt Danny Hope SGT Gregory Lawritson Cpl Craig Marton SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT (Join to see) Maj Marty Hogan
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi LTC (Join to see) LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Jeff S. CPT Jack Durish MSG Dan Walther MSgt Robert C Aldi SFC Stephen King MSgt Danny Hope SGT Gregory Lawritson Cpl Craig Marton SP5 Mark Kuzinski SGT (Join to see) Maj Marty Hogan
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SSG Keith Amacher
SFC Ruether I had a CPT at Ft. Hood that either had amnesia or was and idiot knowing I was Special Forces but main MOS Intel and told me during POMCUS that if we went to war he would go to Canada and was only in for the education. I told him you don't have to worry about the enemy because I will shoot you... Oh and I meant it.
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SSG Christopher Conklin
my feeling is that officers should first be NCO's first that they can be come officer's. That way know the right way to treat person
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LTC Stephen F.
Thanks.my friend Sgt Kelli Mays for sharing your perspective.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. CPL Dave Hoover SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins SrA Christopher Wright
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. CPL Dave Hoover SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins SrA Christopher Wright
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I really have a tough time with 2LT and MAJ in OCP camo. I can't distinguish the rank until I am literally within a couple feet, so its a but awkward when its a MAJ and I'm fumbling a salute last minute. I think the army should go to the same shade of thread as the navy for the gold insignia.
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LTC Stephen F.
Thanks CPT (Join to see) for responding. I had trouble determining the if the black shape on the chest was an SPC shield or LTC oak leaf - age helped me determine usually. Since some 2LTs are OCS graduates with significant enlisted experience I expect age might not be enough to distinguish the difference between a 2LT and a Major.
I do concur that it would make sense to be able to clearly distinguish the ranks.
For field camo uniforms, IMHO it is never a good idea to highlight higher ranks because that could be risky in non-linear combat situations.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Tom Brown SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SGT John " Mac " McConnell SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SP5 Robert Ruck SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Michael Thorin SPC Margaret Higgins SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
I do concur that it would make sense to be able to clearly distinguish the ranks.
For field camo uniforms, IMHO it is never a good idea to highlight higher ranks because that could be risky in non-linear combat situations.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Ivan Raiklin, Esq. Capt Seid Waddell Capt Tom Brown SFC William Farrell SSgt Robert Marx SSgt (Join to see) TSgt Joe C. SGT John " Mac " McConnell SP5 Mark Kuzinski SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright PO1 William "Chip" Nagel SP5 Robert Ruck SCPO Morris Ramsey SGT Michael Thorin SPC Margaret Higgins SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
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If it didn't look like enlisted rank they got a salute and were addresses as Sir or Ma'am. If they stopped to talk, I don't recall ever not being sure about rank.
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LTC Stephen F.
Thanks SSG (Join to see) for weighing in respectively. Treating service members with respect no matter what their rank is a demonstration of good character IMHO.
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. CPL Dave Hoover SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins SrA Christopher Wright
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. CPL Dave Hoover SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins SrA Christopher Wright
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LTC Stephen F.
Thanks SFC Greg Bruorton I concur with you. When it is daylight in garrison I can generally tell by the age of the soldier with a black rank [SPC shield or LTC oak leaf?] what rank he or se is :-)
As an LTC it makes no difference since I would not salute either one :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. CPL Dave Hoover SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins SrA Christopher Wright
As an LTC it makes no difference since I would not salute either one :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. LTC Orlando Illi Lt Col Charlie Brown Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CPT Jack Durish Capt Tom Brown MSG Andrew White SFC William Farrell SGT (Join to see) Sgt Albert Castro SSG David Andrews Sgt Randy Wilber Sgt John H. CPL Dave Hoover SGT Mark Halmrast SPC Margaret Higgins SrA Christopher Wright
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The biggest ones are First Sergeant and Sergeant Major at a distance though if they're from my unit no problem whatsoever. After that it's Major and Lieutenant Colonel but only when they use the Metal pins on their PC's because the pins become tarnished over time and the Oak Leaf kinda looks the same. When it's on the chest no problems at all, but sometimes it's covered by a strap or something so you look at the PC.
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In ACUs, 2nd Lt and Major are very light and tend to blend in with the pattern, so it can be hard to pick those apart until you get close. At a distance, both specialist and lt colonel just look like a black blotch, especially if the patch is a little worn. If the light is hitting them so that there is a good glare, it can be hard to tell if an oak leaf or bar is gold or silver. You also have to get up close and personal to tell if that's a diamond or a star in the middle of the stripes (on ACUs) with Army E8s and E9s.
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