Posted on Feb 5, 2015
Should medically retired get the same certificate as those that did 20+?
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Should people who are medically retired from the service receive the same retirement certificate as those that did the required 20 years or more?
I felt compelled to edit my original post due to the inability of people to decipher its intended message. Nowhere in the original post was I recommending nor advocating diminishing the quality of anyone’s service, in fact I stated that those that served honorably deserve due recognition.
Unfortunately people were so passionate about the subject that they failed to realize that I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement.
In short I was merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate. However the onslaught of down votes has only re-enforced the fact that voicing your opinion on social media is the fastest way to create a riot despite the failure of the intended targets ability to translate its content.
I felt compelled to edit my original post due to the inability of people to decipher its intended message. Nowhere in the original post was I recommending nor advocating diminishing the quality of anyone’s service, in fact I stated that those that served honorably deserve due recognition.
Unfortunately people were so passionate about the subject that they failed to realize that I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement.
In short I was merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate. However the onslaught of down votes has only re-enforced the fact that voicing your opinion on social media is the fastest way to create a riot despite the failure of the intended targets ability to translate its content.
Posted in these groups: 
Retirement
Retirement
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 102
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SFC Grudzinski,
One of the first things I learned as a young NCO is; It's not what you say, but how you say it. I noticed you went back and edited your original post. To be honest, I'm not sure you have picked up on what everyone is trying to tell you. You seem to think that it's everyone else fault for misinterpreting your message. Your original message was also self centered, and condescending to those who may not be able to contribute to society in the same ways they could before.
I only wish for you to know that our careers in the Military have nothing to do with us. It's about our service to this great nation and the people at our sides. If, somehow, we can reap a reward, or receive some compensation along the way it is ok. But, the Army was here before us, and it will be here (God Willing) long after we are gone.
I get the idea from reading your posts, that your 20+ career and upcoming retirement, is somehow impacted by those who have somehow sacrificed differently then you. I hate to break it to you, but we all sacrifice in different ways. Some people give more than others, and some take advantage of the system. But you know what? If you can go home with a clear conscience, and a belief you gave everything you could, then why stress about other people, and what they deserve over what you deserve?
I know my rant here means nothing, but then again, oh well... May God Bless you and your family, and may we just realize that we are here for each other, not against each other.
One of the first things I learned as a young NCO is; It's not what you say, but how you say it. I noticed you went back and edited your original post. To be honest, I'm not sure you have picked up on what everyone is trying to tell you. You seem to think that it's everyone else fault for misinterpreting your message. Your original message was also self centered, and condescending to those who may not be able to contribute to society in the same ways they could before.
I only wish for you to know that our careers in the Military have nothing to do with us. It's about our service to this great nation and the people at our sides. If, somehow, we can reap a reward, or receive some compensation along the way it is ok. But, the Army was here before us, and it will be here (God Willing) long after we are gone.
I get the idea from reading your posts, that your 20+ career and upcoming retirement, is somehow impacted by those who have somehow sacrificed differently then you. I hate to break it to you, but we all sacrifice in different ways. Some people give more than others, and some take advantage of the system. But you know what? If you can go home with a clear conscience, and a belief you gave everything you could, then why stress about other people, and what they deserve over what you deserve?
I know my rant here means nothing, but then again, oh well... May God Bless you and your family, and may we just realize that we are here for each other, not against each other.
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SFC (Join to see)
You must also agree that people frequently misunderstand the typed word over the spoken. No where in anything I wrote was I diminishing anyone's service or sacrifice. Contrary to what you wrote I don't intend on retiring anytime soon.
Condescending ? Where did you even get that from my advocating two different certificates? Contribute to society? I never mentioned anything about that.
That was the point of my choosing to edit becasue people were incorrectly quoting me or paraphrasing it.
Condescending ? Where did you even get that from my advocating two different certificates? Contribute to society? I never mentioned anything about that.
That was the point of my choosing to edit becasue people were incorrectly quoting me or paraphrasing it.
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC Steven Grudzinski,
I fully understand and agree that it is very easy to be misunderstood, or have our message misinterpreted. It is expected that we, as seniors, choose our words carefully and ensure our message is received as intended. I'm not sure there is anyone out there that has said something and wished they could take it back. I also have regrettably been victim of of being misinterpreted on more than one occasion. I have also paid for stepping on my ****(you know what).
What I'm trying to say here, is that your message, however it was intended, was perceived as lacking empathy for those who are medically retired. This is not an isolated case of a single person, but that of the majority who have commented on this thread.
I also think social media has opened a new world, and caused many to suffer at their own words. I often counsel my Soldiers to refrain from posting "questionable" things on social media, and to find someone to objectively critique anything that may cause problems. This is the same for email, and I will often write emails outside outlook, to avoid from rashly sending something.
Again, I always tell people, we are here for each other, not against each other. Also, We all serve, some more than others, but that's not the point.
I fully understand and agree that it is very easy to be misunderstood, or have our message misinterpreted. It is expected that we, as seniors, choose our words carefully and ensure our message is received as intended. I'm not sure there is anyone out there that has said something and wished they could take it back. I also have regrettably been victim of of being misinterpreted on more than one occasion. I have also paid for stepping on my ****(you know what).
What I'm trying to say here, is that your message, however it was intended, was perceived as lacking empathy for those who are medically retired. This is not an isolated case of a single person, but that of the majority who have commented on this thread.
I also think social media has opened a new world, and caused many to suffer at their own words. I often counsel my Soldiers to refrain from posting "questionable" things on social media, and to find someone to objectively critique anything that may cause problems. This is the same for email, and I will often write emails outside outlook, to avoid from rashly sending something.
Again, I always tell people, we are here for each other, not against each other. Also, We all serve, some more than others, but that's not the point.
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We broke it, we pay for it. That's a good standard. A certificate is the least we can do. Unfortunately, there are lots of warriors who were damaged during service who don't get medically retired, carry their injuries in silence, and get ignored by the military.
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SFC (Join to see)
Well sir I highly doubt that since my wife works for the MEB and I know what they go through before a determination is made whether to retire them or not. In most cases those injuries are not as bad as the soldier would like people to believe.
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MAJ Ron Peery
I see that you collected a lot of down votes on this. I am not one of them.
I have met and worked with a lot of veterans who were injured in the normal course of duty and got nothing. Screwed up backs, nerve damage, stress fractures, bad knees, messed up shoulders, hearing loss. Most of us just accept it and march on. A friend of mine developed Hodgkin's Lymphoma. The Army medical facility at our post labeled him as a chronic complainer, until he collapsed on duty during an FTX. He died while undergoing radical chemo. Our system is not perfect. People slip through the cracks. When someone has served honorably and is injured or becomes ill and can no longer perform, and the injury or illness are service related, why should it make a difference how long they served?
I have met and worked with a lot of veterans who were injured in the normal course of duty and got nothing. Screwed up backs, nerve damage, stress fractures, bad knees, messed up shoulders, hearing loss. Most of us just accept it and march on. A friend of mine developed Hodgkin's Lymphoma. The Army medical facility at our post labeled him as a chronic complainer, until he collapsed on duty during an FTX. He died while undergoing radical chemo. Our system is not perfect. People slip through the cracks. When someone has served honorably and is injured or becomes ill and can no longer perform, and the injury or illness are service related, why should it make a difference how long they served?
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I'm probably going to get a down vote for this. I think there should be two certificates for the 20 years in service versus the medically retired. It makes a difference. Someone who was medically retired probably didn't want to stop serving. I think their certificate should reflect how much they sacrificed for their country. Someone who has served 20 years ( someone who was lucky to surpass that magical 20 years) probably was healthy enough to do it. So I do think it's two different things. It should be differentiated in my opinion.
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MSG (Join to see)
I agree ma'am. Healthy or not.. 20 years is a long time in my opinion to put up with the "hooah".
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Kyle Carpenter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
William Kyle Carpenter (born October 17, 1989), also known as Kyle Carpenter, is a medically retired United States Marine who received the United States' highest military honor, the Medal of Honor, for his actions in Marjah, Helmand Province, Afghanistan in 2011. Carpenter is the youngest living Medal of Honor recipient.
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Since a significant number of people were able to retire at 15 years based on Congressional modifications at different points in history, while most of us couldn't I have no issue with anybody who is medically required I support those who are medically retired getting a certificate - assuming they were honorably discharged SFC (Join to see).
Whether we retire after 15, 20, 30, 35, 40 or longer years of service I believe everybody should get the same basic retirement certificate whether retirement is based on years of service or medical separation.
I had an opportunity to be medically discharged in 2003; but, I elected to stay on. Congress modified the retirement law so that anybody mobilized after January 30, 2008 could have their retirement age reduced by 90 days for every period of 90 day qualifying service.
You stated "I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement. ... merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate."
I appreciate the spirit of your question which is why I up-voted you on August 16, 2017.
I have never down-voted anybody although I have been sorely tested :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSgt (Join to see) SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Wayne Brandon SSG William WallMSgt Jason McClishAN Christopher CrayneSgt Trevor BarrettSPC Tom DeSmetSGT Charles H. Hawes
Whether we retire after 15, 20, 30, 35, 40 or longer years of service I believe everybody should get the same basic retirement certificate whether retirement is based on years of service or medical separation.
I had an opportunity to be medically discharged in 2003; but, I elected to stay on. Congress modified the retirement law so that anybody mobilized after January 30, 2008 could have their retirement age reduced by 90 days for every period of 90 day qualifying service.
You stated "I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement. ... merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate."
I appreciate the spirit of your question which is why I up-voted you on August 16, 2017.
I have never down-voted anybody although I have been sorely tested :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSgt (Join to see) SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Wayne Brandon SSG William WallMSgt Jason McClishAN Christopher CrayneSgt Trevor BarrettSPC Tom DeSmetSGT Charles H. Hawes
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It is a shame I can't find any General's from my service that have a meme worth posting - oh, that's right, my General's forgot they were Soldier's first and now think they are politicians (which they are).
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SP5 Richard Maze
Is this a disability retirement or a medical discharge? If someone is retired because a service-connected injury or disability prevents them from continuing to serve, the law allows them to receive retired pay. I'm OK with them getting a retirement certificate.
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SFC (Join to see),
If I end up medically retired (a very strong possibility), I won't care one whit if my certificate says Medically Retired instead of Retired. The Army is all about segregating and specifying things, like when my clothing record has "Socks, OD Green" on a separate line from "Socks, Black"... it's just stating the facts. In my mind, it's logical for the medically retired to have a certificate that states as much.
Still, you seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest with your question. I think you somehow tapped into people's emotions with this one. Good luck weathering the storm and don't worry, someone will eventually post something that draws their ire more. ;)
If I end up medically retired (a very strong possibility), I won't care one whit if my certificate says Medically Retired instead of Retired. The Army is all about segregating and specifying things, like when my clothing record has "Socks, OD Green" on a separate line from "Socks, Black"... it's just stating the facts. In my mind, it's logical for the medically retired to have a certificate that states as much.
Still, you seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest with your question. I think you somehow tapped into people's emotions with this one. Good luck weathering the storm and don't worry, someone will eventually post something that draws their ire more. ;)
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I'm sorry but I think you need to understand most of us didn't to be retired and I think it's wrong to assume you know what others are going through I would love the simple things back to drive a car be aloud to be alone with out a (old man sitter) as the grandchildren call it to sleep six hours without pain or dreaming about something that happened so long ago but right now it's like it's happening RI GGGGGHH HT NOW .
As with life in general walk a mile in my boots before you think you can judge
As with life in general walk a mile in my boots before you think you can judge
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SGT Jim Barrows, Roger that good post and I appreciate your Service. Thanks for Sharing! Very inspiring!
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Why the hell not? They were forced out to reasons beyond their control. It's not like they didn't re-enlist. In many cases, those who are medically retired may have done more to earn their retirement than those who served 20 years.
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PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith
Chief, really, a dunce cap? Let's take it easy on the hyperbole, shall we? A guy gets his ass blown off in Iraq and is forced to leave service though he wants to stay in. He wasn't a forced out because he was fat, he was retired from service. You did 23, congratulations. I envy you. Wish I could've. Wasn't in the cards for me. (Mostly my own fault), but guys who are medically retired 99% of the time earned their retirement.
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So you are pissed that your retirement certificate reads the same as the ones who lost more than you did and weren't able to complete 20 years? How effing selfish can you be? Do you think your better than those of us who served honorably but because of injury were not able to continue? I will make sure that when I tell people about my time in the service, I will be sure to add an asterisk.
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I usually try to refrain from bashing service members over posts. But this has even got me spun up. I could see a junior service member asking this but not a senior NCO.
I'm in the same boat with SFC Mark Merino in hoping SFC Grudzinski just had a bad day or maybe someone rubbed him wrong.
I'm in the same boat with SFC Mark Merino in hoping SFC Grudzinski just had a bad day or maybe someone rubbed him wrong.
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SFC (Join to see)
What would be the difference between a junior soldier or a senior advocating two separate certificates? That is all I was sayng but for some reason people read something completely different.
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Your suggestion that there needs to be a separate certificate for those medically retired raised hackles because it implicitly assumes a superiority of the 20 year "true" retirement over a possibly "suspicious" medical retirement. No matter what your intended message, there is a hostile subtext in how your suggestion reads. Retired is retired is retired, my friend. No need for a "separate but equal" system of certificates.
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Yeah we should. I made my E-6 in 4 years and was on the fast track until sustaining several injuries in combat (Infantry). I was a career soldier who was specifically emailed by the board with barely over 7 years in stating I had been recommended for promotion but due to my Profile I was not going to see my E-7. As I fought to get off of it they kept finding more doing MRI's and Brain Scans. Why should I be treated As if I'm less of a Soldier because my injuries only allowed me to serve 10 years and not 20? How about all the 20 year guys who never deployed or don't have a CIB or CAB? Maybe they should get a different one too??
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SFC (Join to see)
This is about a certificate not whether you served or not. The CAB and CIB are given not earned, trust me I know many who were in no danger just present. If someone did 20 and never deployed during Americas longest war they are suspect already.
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SFC (Join to see)
As with 99% of the people who have replied and down voted this thread you have also taken it out of context.
No where did I say that your injuries made you less of a soldier, this is about a certificate for retirement being made different to differentiate between medically retired and normal retirement.
No where did I say that your injuries made you less of a soldier, this is about a certificate for retirement being made different to differentiate between medically retired and normal retirement.
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CPT (Join to see)
Oh but you did SFC (Join to see). The Certificate of Retirement isn't the point, your thinking that there needs to be a differentiation between the two tells people that you think less of their retirement because of their injuries than your 20 some odd years of service. Why else would you want a different certificate? If I present my certificate for some reason (I don't have one yet) should I be treated differently than you (if you have a certificate also) if I'm medically retired? If this is not what you meant then you worded the original question very, very poorly. And the edit to clarify is no better.
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SSG Kyle Shelton
No he's super special. I deployed under a Command Sergeant Major for my Battalion with over 20 years in and it was HIS FIRST DEPLOYMENT. So a worthless 5 year E-5 with no arms is less than someone who "did their 20". If CIBs and CABs were just handed out in your unit where is your's? Retirement Certificates should be the same because REGARDLESS of the reason both injured soldiers and those that did their time are both RETIRED. My friends who are paralyzed from a sniper or lucky enough to be alive after getting a sniper round through his artery in his right shoulder and can't use that arm anymore. Or the guys with limbs missing, shattered spines from a Stateside jump...the Army, yes the same ARMY that retired you chooses to RETIRE these Warriors. Worry about your DD-215 or something.
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This thread seems to be in line with the one about those with permanent profiles being paid less or something.
My wife was medically retired for permanent injuries sustained down range and I will continue to serve until retirement comes calling.
The fact that a senior NCO is even thinking this way is quite disturbing and clearly does not get the big picture. If this is the way you really feel I hate to think about how you treat Soldiers going through the process of transitioning into civilian life let alone those you may be responsible for. All I can say is I hope you never have to be one of the injured that may need to be medically retired and that you open your eyes to recognize the sacrifices of those who had.
My wife was medically retired for permanent injuries sustained down range and I will continue to serve until retirement comes calling.
The fact that a senior NCO is even thinking this way is quite disturbing and clearly does not get the big picture. If this is the way you really feel I hate to think about how you treat Soldiers going through the process of transitioning into civilian life let alone those you may be responsible for. All I can say is I hope you never have to be one of the injured that may need to be medically retired and that you open your eyes to recognize the sacrifices of those who had.
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SSG (Join to see)
I'm right there with ya on that one SSG Robert Burns. Although Dr. Pepper & Fireball are making it difficult from keeping my trap shut, but I will weather the storm
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SSG Michael O'Malley
Don't worry SSG Burns I tried but I couldn't hold back. I didn't get a choice when I was retired. Like I said if a piece of paper is that important to some then I feel sorry for them. We know why we served and I'm sure with you as me it wasn't for medals and to get a piece of paper. Love the baby pic by the way. My son will turn 2 in May.
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I don't see why not. The certificate says that you served honorably and were retired. Someone who is retired medically meets both of those under most circumstances I could think about.
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Every case is different. I believe that they should get a Retirement Certificate. SFC (Join to see)
The problem with the whole Military Medical system is that it is hard to tell sometimes who is riding the system and those who are truly in dire need. Those that are not clog the system for Soldiers who require attention.
There are also Doctors who make decisions based on personal beliefs instead of actual medical facts and findings. I had one try to prevent my deployment and as me why I wanted to go.
As SFC Mark Merino stated he was trying his best to get at least 20 years.
Unfortunately there are many more who could be just trying to get a paycheck and it is too hard to discern the difference.
We must respect the fact that we are all together in this and have earned what we get regardless of the circumstances.
The problem with the whole Military Medical system is that it is hard to tell sometimes who is riding the system and those who are truly in dire need. Those that are not clog the system for Soldiers who require attention.
There are also Doctors who make decisions based on personal beliefs instead of actual medical facts and findings. I had one try to prevent my deployment and as me why I wanted to go.
As SFC Mark Merino stated he was trying his best to get at least 20 years.
Unfortunately there are many more who could be just trying to get a paycheck and it is too hard to discern the difference.
We must respect the fact that we are all together in this and have earned what we get regardless of the circumstances.
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