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Post Traumatic Stress is the body’s natural response to critical life incidents, affecting each of us to varying degrees and in different ways physically, emotionally, cognitively, and spiritually. Within the VA, PTS is generally ranked by severity somewhere between one and ten. Anyone who has survived a fire, flood, hurricane, tornado, shipwreck, rape, or any sort of life-threatening incident never forgets what happened. PTS is our reaction to traumatic or unpleasant incidents or chapters of our lives. Symptoms include nightmares, flashbacks, loss of sleep, irritability, short temperedness, loss of concentration, hostility, weight gain, loss of self-worth, anxiety, and survivor's guilt.
During the post-Vietnam War period when the term Post Traumatic Stress Disorder replaced the old school WWI term “shell-shock” and the WWII term “battle-fatigue.” The VA tends to take a clinical approach to Post Traumatic Stress and continues to call it a disorder (PTSD). PTS is not a disorder in my opinion, but a natural response to trauma we experience. Most veterans agree that there is a negative connotation to calling this reaction a disorder - it suggests there is something wrong with them. Truthfully, what we are responding to is natural. Post Trauma Stress should be universally considered an injury (PTSI) rather than a disorder. Sometimes people never fully recover, but that doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with them. Just like any other injury, even if it’s not possible to get back to 100%, there are many methods to get people back to living a mostly normal life.
Although I’m a non-combat Vietnam era vet, I have many friends who saw combat in that war or are combat veterans of the conflicts in the Middle East. They all returned home wanting to put the experience behind them and, with only a few exceptions, most are not comfortable talking about their experiences. Many returned home with a newfound addiction to drugs and/or alcohol. Generally they received little help from anyone, including the VA.
Over the course of time, and many cups of coffee, a good friend of mine provided me some insight and understanding of PTSI, based on his own experience and what he has learned about himself as a Vietnam Army Combat Veteran. His wife encouraged him to write down his experiences while in Vietnam, and the result was a piece called, “Through My Eyes” chronicling his tour of duty in Vietnam 1968 - 1969. It was the beginning of his recovery process from PTSI. He has attended a number of Veterans’ Camp gatherings as both a participant and advisor. Though he still suffers from PTSI, Bob has learned coping mechanisms to deal with it, and over the past 45 years he has come a long way.
Through our discussions, I learned that many veterans didn’t realize what effect combat had on them until they returned home. It was at home that my friend began to realize that simply getting a good night’s sleep would be a blessing. His attitude and conversations had changed considerably after the war, along with his level of impatience. Most combat vets are hesitant to talk about what happened to them, or read war stories, or watch certain movies because they do not want to reignite memories.
I could never fully comprehend the anguish and fear my friend experienced as a combat Vietnam vet, but I can understand the flashbacks. My own experience with PTS is based on my 32-year marriage to a woman with PTS. Even after 50 years, she still struggles with memories of rape, a car accident, and the loss of our 8-year-old daughter. My friend told me that while he could not comprehend what we went through losing a child, he appreciated knowing how I dealt with it. Many of us agreed that we share a common healer in Jesus, even though most people at a Vet Camp would not appreciate a dialogue that included a lot of Jesus talk.
My friend also discovered that spouses of combat veterans can play an important role in successfully addressing PTS. At one family Vet Camp, he shared his experience speaking with just the spouses. He talked about the emotions, concerns, and fears that their partners would not share with them. They were very appreciative of his willingness to open up and give them a better understanding of the issues their loved ones may be dealing with.
Today we have many combat Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who struggle with similar flashbacks and stress-related issues when they return home and strive to melt back into civilian life. However, PTS also affects our men and women within our community support systems, such as police officers and firefighters, and is recognized as being a key factor in the health and stability of these organizations.
At home, and on any given day, at least 22 veterans take their own lives, typically due to PTS. However this past summer, the Department of Veterans Affairs indicated this number is now closer to 20 veterans committing suicide every day. I personally believe that the most recent statistics on these suicides likely do not consider vets suffering from PTS, who in the past overdosed on drugs or and/or alcohol. Though the exact figures are unknown, any number of military personnel taking their own lives is unacceptable, it is too many.
The universal goal among veterans advocacy groups is to dramatically reduce that number by working with our vets by giving them the knowledge, tools, and resources to understand what PTS is and how to cope with it. Veterans’ Camp, or veteran gatherings, have proven to be a successful means to begin a dialogue.
Nearly all vets with PTS have trust issues to varying degrees. Even amongst themselves, vets may not open up or even realize that their suffering can be helped. The purpose of Vet Camps is to provide a safe place where vets can meet other vets with PTS while learning how best to cope with it. At these camps, we talk about issues that cause them concern, such as a lack of support from the VA. Many others open up about the ugliness of war and the loss of their comrades and friends. Occasionally, discussions revolve around similar topics to what is discussed here on RallyPoint: what our government expects of our military, such as rules of engagement and intelligence failures, and the overall effectiveness of our armed forces.
If you or anyone you know may be suffering from PTS, just remember that it is not a disorder, but an injury, and there are thousands of vets like you who would love to help out.
During the post-Vietnam War period when the term Post Traumatic Stress Disorder replaced the old school WWI term “shell-shock” and the WWII term “battle-fatigue.” The VA tends to take a clinical approach to Post Traumatic Stress and continues to call it a disorder (PTSD). PTS is not a disorder in my opinion, but a natural response to trauma we experience. Most veterans agree that there is a negative connotation to calling this reaction a disorder - it suggests there is something wrong with them. Truthfully, what we are responding to is natural. Post Trauma Stress should be universally considered an injury (PTSI) rather than a disorder. Sometimes people never fully recover, but that doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with them. Just like any other injury, even if it’s not possible to get back to 100%, there are many methods to get people back to living a mostly normal life.
Although I’m a non-combat Vietnam era vet, I have many friends who saw combat in that war or are combat veterans of the conflicts in the Middle East. They all returned home wanting to put the experience behind them and, with only a few exceptions, most are not comfortable talking about their experiences. Many returned home with a newfound addiction to drugs and/or alcohol. Generally they received little help from anyone, including the VA.
Over the course of time, and many cups of coffee, a good friend of mine provided me some insight and understanding of PTSI, based on his own experience and what he has learned about himself as a Vietnam Army Combat Veteran. His wife encouraged him to write down his experiences while in Vietnam, and the result was a piece called, “Through My Eyes” chronicling his tour of duty in Vietnam 1968 - 1969. It was the beginning of his recovery process from PTSI. He has attended a number of Veterans’ Camp gatherings as both a participant and advisor. Though he still suffers from PTSI, Bob has learned coping mechanisms to deal with it, and over the past 45 years he has come a long way.
Through our discussions, I learned that many veterans didn’t realize what effect combat had on them until they returned home. It was at home that my friend began to realize that simply getting a good night’s sleep would be a blessing. His attitude and conversations had changed considerably after the war, along with his level of impatience. Most combat vets are hesitant to talk about what happened to them, or read war stories, or watch certain movies because they do not want to reignite memories.
I could never fully comprehend the anguish and fear my friend experienced as a combat Vietnam vet, but I can understand the flashbacks. My own experience with PTS is based on my 32-year marriage to a woman with PTS. Even after 50 years, she still struggles with memories of rape, a car accident, and the loss of our 8-year-old daughter. My friend told me that while he could not comprehend what we went through losing a child, he appreciated knowing how I dealt with it. Many of us agreed that we share a common healer in Jesus, even though most people at a Vet Camp would not appreciate a dialogue that included a lot of Jesus talk.
My friend also discovered that spouses of combat veterans can play an important role in successfully addressing PTS. At one family Vet Camp, he shared his experience speaking with just the spouses. He talked about the emotions, concerns, and fears that their partners would not share with them. They were very appreciative of his willingness to open up and give them a better understanding of the issues their loved ones may be dealing with.
Today we have many combat Iraq and Afghanistan veterans who struggle with similar flashbacks and stress-related issues when they return home and strive to melt back into civilian life. However, PTS also affects our men and women within our community support systems, such as police officers and firefighters, and is recognized as being a key factor in the health and stability of these organizations.
At home, and on any given day, at least 22 veterans take their own lives, typically due to PTS. However this past summer, the Department of Veterans Affairs indicated this number is now closer to 20 veterans committing suicide every day. I personally believe that the most recent statistics on these suicides likely do not consider vets suffering from PTS, who in the past overdosed on drugs or and/or alcohol. Though the exact figures are unknown, any number of military personnel taking their own lives is unacceptable, it is too many.
The universal goal among veterans advocacy groups is to dramatically reduce that number by working with our vets by giving them the knowledge, tools, and resources to understand what PTS is and how to cope with it. Veterans’ Camp, or veteran gatherings, have proven to be a successful means to begin a dialogue.
Nearly all vets with PTS have trust issues to varying degrees. Even amongst themselves, vets may not open up or even realize that their suffering can be helped. The purpose of Vet Camps is to provide a safe place where vets can meet other vets with PTS while learning how best to cope with it. At these camps, we talk about issues that cause them concern, such as a lack of support from the VA. Many others open up about the ugliness of war and the loss of their comrades and friends. Occasionally, discussions revolve around similar topics to what is discussed here on RallyPoint: what our government expects of our military, such as rules of engagement and intelligence failures, and the overall effectiveness of our armed forces.
If you or anyone you know may be suffering from PTS, just remember that it is not a disorder, but an injury, and there are thousands of vets like you who would love to help out.
PTSD
PTS
Trauma
Mental Health
Command Post
Posted >1 y ago
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RP Members and Connections - Great discussion and post on PTSD by PO2 Gerry Tandberg - Please pass this onto many of your connections here on RallyPoint.
CAPT Michael MoranPO3 Bob McCord CAPT John Fristachi SPC Kenneth OsborneSFC LaTonya Ramos, Human Resource(HRBP) | United States Army SFC (Retired)| Military Breastfeeding Advocate|Certified Just Culture ChampionPO3 Ron Hinton SPC Doug MessickSPC Scott MarcelleSPC Saundra Teater SSG Kevin Flike
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-i-learned-about-post-traumatic-stress
CAPT Michael MoranPO3 Bob McCord CAPT John Fristachi SPC Kenneth OsborneSFC LaTonya Ramos, Human Resource(HRBP) | United States Army SFC (Retired)| Military Breastfeeding Advocate|Certified Just Culture ChampionPO3 Ron Hinton SPC Doug MessickSPC Scott MarcelleSPC Saundra Teater SSG Kevin Flike
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-i-learned-about-post-traumatic-stress
What I Learned About Post Traumatic Stress | RallyPoint
Post Traumatic Stress is the body’s natural response to critical life incidents, affecting each of us to varying degrees and in different ways physically, emotionally, cognitively, and spiritually. Within the VA, PTS is generally ranked by severity somewhere between one and ten. Anyone who has survived a fire, flood, hurricane, tornado, shipwreck, rape, or any sort of life-threatening incident never forgets what happened. PTS is our reaction...
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SSG Edward Tilton
MSgt Victor Moss - It is a DISORDER, as in POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER. If you can't work because you have a mental disorder that is where you are
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PVT Mark Brown
SSG Edward Tilton -
it has become common to drop the "disorder" and refer to it as post traumatic STRESS. Note: stress is the operative word rather than disorder.
it has become common to drop the "disorder" and refer to it as post traumatic STRESS. Note: stress is the operative word rather than disorder.
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SSG Edward Tilton
A disorder is a grade of condition. A few years ago someone wanted to reclassify in the DSM, PTSD as a psychosis. That would cause it to be treated as a serious condition.No one with Post Traumatic Stress Psychosis could have a gun and wouldn't be in the Military, has been around since before the Army would acknowledge PTSD. Originally,The Army rated me for a ""Anxiety Disorder"" but a well regarded university called it Combat Related Stress Disorder. So stop dropping the Disorder
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I've been coping for ten years now. When I returned from the desert in January 2008, I had no knowledge of PTSD. No one informed me at my debriefing of what I was going to expect when returning. It wasn't until about two years after I returned that my wife threatened to leave me if I didn't get help. So I went to the VA and got some help, some tools, and more knowledge of what to expect. I still have triggers, memories, a nightmare from time to time, but I live with them. I have somewhat adapted. When I first returned, I met an old Vietnam Vet and talked to him about the memories, and if they ever stop. He told me that they don't, that you have to learn to accept what you did, and get on with your life. This, I have tried to do, and I try every day. I cope, and I avoid my triggers as much as possible. I believe I can help others with the same issues, and will do so if asked.
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SSgt Ron Dexter
SFC (Join to see) Thank you for sharing. It is disheartening to read the Army did not properly make you aware of what could happen and what signs to look for. I hope you continue to learn new skills so you can live your best life possible! This I hope for you and all your combat Veteran brothers and sisters
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PO1 Bill O
The hardest part of this condition is that no one but you really knows what you feel, when you feel it, and how to avoid triggering its ugly memory! One day there will be a tested medical medicine or therapy to stop this disease. The problem is that man keeps searching, he does not include proven results because competition gets in the way, egos abound, and then the learnt concepts become overlooked because technology is passing them by. Man has already found the answer to this problem. Love each other, and stop warring!
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SFC Mike Terry
I was in Vietnam and my PTSD didn't really kick in till I was in my early sixties. The VA has helped a lot. just knowing what is wrong with you helps. So hang in their Sgt Hawk, cause it never completely goes away.
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AN Christopher Crayne
I did the TMS in Nevada. Trans Magnetic Stimulation. It consists of about 48 min. + - ,each person differs, of magnetic pulses like the MRI into a specific area of the brain that depression stores/exists. They pulse that area and watch your hand. When all the fingers stop jerking and only the thumb moves, they found the spot. They laser measure the spot for accurate placement for future visits.You take about 3,000 pulses in that session time . Your eyes and teeth rattle a bit. Tenderness to the head where pulsed. And that's one down and twenty nine more to go,daily, thirty days in a row. The results for myself although temporary, (around 4 months) improved my overall mood and lessened the depression. I found it a worthwhile experience.
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great post I have heard many other people say that PTSD is not a disease but in fact an injury, to the mind and psyche, I'm 50% through proper meds and counselling I can lead a some what normal life, but the fact is, its an injury just like my blown out knee, the injury still exists, the treatment is palliative at best
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MSG (Join to see)
MSgt Victor Moss - I totally agree we are guinea pigs to these people that have not been in our boots, experienced our traumas but they are the ones treating us, fortunately my current psych doc who seems to be more in tune with PTS, has gotten me on the correct drugs and dosages which have improved my overall life, and yes knowing your triggers and dealing with them is also important, as well as how to avoid those triggers, its a combination of medication and education and over all excepting the fact you are not the same person you were
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CWO3 (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - I'm not a psychiatrist nor a professional medical doctor, but I know personally what I've been through during my time in the Marine Corps. I've had physical injuries on top of head injuries. I've been with Artillery, Infantry, Signal Intelligence, Amtracs, Tanks, and Division and MEB Staff Officer. But I will never forget the times that I held a seriously wounded Marine, whether it be peacetime combat ops or the real deal. I somehow knew when I returned from any ops how I would react to my family. Especially after being in combat and not wanting my family to know what I went through. As everyone here mentioned we all can see the physical injuries and wounds, but not the serious ones and injuries that will affect you for life. I've been very blessed to come back a survivor but sometimes I wish I hadn't. I have been in counseling therapy with my psychiatrist since my last employment. That was 7 years ago. I deal with my nightmares by eating right, getting the right hours of sleep, and especially exercising. But my thoughts and Nightmares haven't gone away, but like many Marines who have been diagnosed with this injury, disease, disorder whatever you want to call or name it, it will always be a part of my life and my wife and son's. I'm just happy that they understand me and my difficulties that comes with the silent injuries that we all take for granted. I know this Marine will never take life for granted ever again. I'd rather be the same Marine that I was prior to my very first incident during an op in South Korea. Thanks for sharing all your thoughts and opinions. I know I can get through this obstacle one day at a time and hopefully you all will too! I've been diagnosed with this disorder or injury since 1992 unofficial, but officially since 2010. I'm still doing what I do everyday surviving like we all do.
Semper Fidelis, To all who gave their best
Semper Fidelis, To all who gave their best
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MSG (Join to see)
MSgt Terry Swift - very interesting, I've tried acupuncture, CBT, my meds well they work for now, my family bailed, could'nt deal with it anymore, even with my meds and CBT I still have the nightmares, but their effect on me are lessoned, i'm functional at work, I work out every day and eat well, I retired 3 years ago from the USAR, one last reminder to scratch from my thoughts, yes I miss it, but it needed to be done, as you said one day at a time that's all we can do
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CPO Bill Penrod
I am one of the lucky one from Vietnam because I've manage to put my PTSD asleep most of the time. It's there just dormat for now.....
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As a future mental health therapist, my biggest pet peeve is how people don't think the brain can get injured like a bone or muscle. They think since they can't see a physical manifestation then it doesn't exist.
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2LT (Join to see)
I'm working with a neurofeedback program at UTSA for anxiety and trauma. It's really helped a lot of people. And this clinic is free.
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2LT (Join to see)
Tricare only covers biofeedback and only for 2 conditions that aren't psychosomatic.
Were you're treatments symptom or QEEG-led? I've seen QEEG is a lot better since it actually sees what sites are improperly firing. Also if you weren't seeing improvements after 10 sessions then the protocol should have been reevaluated. Was your therapist BCIA certified?
Were you're treatments symptom or QEEG-led? I've seen QEEG is a lot better since it actually sees what sites are improperly firing. Also if you weren't seeing improvements after 10 sessions then the protocol should have been reevaluated. Was your therapist BCIA certified?
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CPT Scott Sharon
Cynthia Croft - Sorry, I have not been on RP for a while. I was surprised by all the great comments on PTSD and brain health while I was gone. Especially since for many years I did not believe PTSD existed. I am following the protocol recommended bt Dr. Amen's clinic and I am also doing neurofeedback. For me, neurofeedback is not nearly as powerful, however, they could see where my brain rewired itself after my stroke when I learned to walk again. Neither of these treatments have been approved bt the FDA so insurance usually does not cover it.
There is a lot of new work and discoveries being made in the area of brain science. Until recently no one realized most of the problems we have are caused by brain damage or that the physical brain damage could be repaired. Most people have no idea how powerful our brains are and we only use a small percentage of it. I think it is important to do what you can to repair the physical damage before taking drugs or counseling.
Many drugs are effective and necessary but too many are just to treat our symptoms instead of repairing the problem. Too many doctors rely on drugs only.
There is a lot of new work and discoveries being made in the area of brain science. Until recently no one realized most of the problems we have are caused by brain damage or that the physical brain damage could be repaired. Most people have no idea how powerful our brains are and we only use a small percentage of it. I think it is important to do what you can to repair the physical damage before taking drugs or counseling.
Many drugs are effective and necessary but too many are just to treat our symptoms instead of repairing the problem. Too many doctors rely on drugs only.
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I don't know how to respond to this other than by telling my story. I experienced a lot of horrible things while in Vietnam. I lost a lot of good friends and comrades there. As an example, of the 14 members of my OCS class that graduated 12 of us went to Vietnam. Only 3 came home alive. When I returned home all I wanted to do was to forget as much as I could.
My friends and family told me I was a different person when I returned home but I could not see that. I heard a lot about PDS but I did not believe it was real. I thought I could lock all the bad memories up in the back of my mind and forget them so that's what I tried to do. Members of the 19th Combat Engineer Battallion have a reunion every summer and many of them have tried to talk me into attending but I could never bring myself to doing that. Why would I want to bring back all those memories? I still have not attended any of the events.
Someone mentioned in one of the posts about this subject that certain movies would stir up bad memories and that's what happened to me when I saw the movie Apocalypse Now. That was so realistic I had nightmares for months after watching it.
I have talked very little about Vietnam since I returned but I recently wrote a book for my children about the first 30 years of my life. I included stories from my military career in the book and several stories about some of my Vietnam experiences. As you can understand I could not put much of the really bad stuff about Vietnam in the book. However, after writing and sharing the experiences in the book, after all these years it does not bother me anymore to talk about my Vietnam experiences.
I'm sure some of you medical members will understand how maybe just letting it out instead of holding it in really helps. It certainly made me feel a lot better.
My friends and family told me I was a different person when I returned home but I could not see that. I heard a lot about PDS but I did not believe it was real. I thought I could lock all the bad memories up in the back of my mind and forget them so that's what I tried to do. Members of the 19th Combat Engineer Battallion have a reunion every summer and many of them have tried to talk me into attending but I could never bring myself to doing that. Why would I want to bring back all those memories? I still have not attended any of the events.
Someone mentioned in one of the posts about this subject that certain movies would stir up bad memories and that's what happened to me when I saw the movie Apocalypse Now. That was so realistic I had nightmares for months after watching it.
I have talked very little about Vietnam since I returned but I recently wrote a book for my children about the first 30 years of my life. I included stories from my military career in the book and several stories about some of my Vietnam experiences. As you can understand I could not put much of the really bad stuff about Vietnam in the book. However, after writing and sharing the experiences in the book, after all these years it does not bother me anymore to talk about my Vietnam experiences.
I'm sure some of you medical members will understand how maybe just letting it out instead of holding it in really helps. It certainly made me feel a lot better.
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Kathlean Keesler
THANK YOU. What a wonderful idea writing a book for your children & their children. Personally I find your truth "courageous". Respectfully Kate the civilian
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Thank you Gerry for this and those who responded already. I served in 4 conflicts from 1983-1995, and we never discussed PTS, because to ask for help would cost your security clearance revocation, loss of duty position, and it was considered unmanly. We/I thought the nightmares, flashbacks, cold sweats, lack of good sleep were normal. It took me 10 yrs after retiring to seek help, it wasn't till the crying jags hit home. Diagnosis was PTSD, major depression- 50% rating. Some few years ago I let them put me on mild medication, when therapy had plateaued. I found it was just another wound, had several anyway, and like them it bugs you every day. Every day is a fight, win, lose or draw. My area has a Vet 2 Vet program where we have peer counseling which helps a lot- because we trust each other, regardless of age/conflict. After researching found it was common for 1st responders and some victims to have PTS- after all their events are often similar to ours. You have to get up every morning and say this is going to be a good day, and at each night, you have to say win, lose or draw, tomorrow is a chance to do better. I found it was a lot better for my girlfriend of 8 yrs to get guidance from one of my friends with PTS, because he could explain it calmly, and show it was not directed at her. Since the VA reported suicide problems in 1999- we have lost over 136,000 brother and sisters- that's more than all the KIA total from the Korean War to present. What is not included is that it appears at least 1 active duty member kills themselves every day as well. And these are just those reported as suicides, Lord knows how many there are actually. Need to push folks to seek help, and to remind the civilians world that's it something why have to fix
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Took me 13yrs to admit I had a problem and then it wasn't me who did. The VA "ordered" me to go to a shrink. Glad they did. Worst thing, my brother's daughter is a shrink. After I had gone, I was telling her and she said she knew a long time ago.
We just have to get over the big boy syndrome and get some help. The worst thing is those who want to ride the wagon and make it seem taboo for the rest of us. Also when the public thinks just because we are vets we are all going to go "postal" and loose our marbles. Doc said I was ok, maybe just short one marble or so, but normal.
We just have to get over the big boy syndrome and get some help. The worst thing is those who want to ride the wagon and make it seem taboo for the rest of us. Also when the public thinks just because we are vets we are all going to go "postal" and loose our marbles. Doc said I was ok, maybe just short one marble or so, but normal.
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SGM Mikel Dawson
SP5 Christine Conley - You got that right Chief. I think many of our marble bags have been pawed through.
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Excellent article! I self medicated for 15 years. Not until I admitted that I had PTSD and had become an alcoholic was I able to get the help that I needed. There are many things that I've never told my wife about and never will, she doesn't need to know the details. Both of our children are combat veterans and we've discussed some things that happened and have been able to help each other on occasion. I have found that the greatest help in dealing with it has come from a relationship with God and mentoring and assisting other veterans that are having issues.
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PO2 Gerry Tandberg
Thanks for your comments Don. The group that I support as a staff photographer is a faith-base organization and all staff on board are Veterans and Christians. We DO NOT preach. Instead, we give them the opportunity to talk in a safe environment where we understand much of what they have experienced. Sometimes it takes several camp experiences to establish a trust relationship with both staff and their own peers. The most encouraging aspect is these Vets have picked up the ball and do much of the heavy lifting now; i.e., organizing events, contacting other vets, respond to crisis situations among themselves, and yes, understand that there is a spiritual side to recovery that the VA seldom, if ever offers for consideraton.
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The Biggest problem I am finding is that the VA is totally useless, if you do not meet their classification of what they feel PTSD is. They have 5 conditions and if you do not meet 4 of the 5, they will not identify you as having PTSD. Mt PTDS started while in the Navy during Vietnam and after, the crash of Aircraft on the flight deck, pulling a body out of the water that floated out from under a camel in Hong Kong harbor and then having it explode when its buoyancy is lost when we lifted it up in a stokes stretcher. Then after discharge going into the Fire Service and pulling burned bodies out of houses, retrieving bodies, body parts and pieces from crashed aircraft. for 30+ years. The funny thing is I took classes on how to spot Post Traumatic Stress in my Fire Fighters, but I never was able to see it in myself. As a Firefighter you learned how to burn stress by using "black humor" at the station. That plus a close brotherhood of Firefighters helped. A close personal relationship with GOD helped me to keep my sanity. I taught myself how to manifest pain into laughter until one day when our Junior Senator hosted a Welcome Home Vietnam Veterans get together. I went and as part of the many exhibits I came face to face with my land mine. The one thing that triggered my release. The next thing I knew I was against the wall curled into a ball crying my eyes out. It all came to the surface. Well before I left I conquered that land mine. I
I went to my Dr. at the VA and had her refer me to the PTSD Clinic. I spoke to a Social Worker, she asked me a bunch of questions and I found out that I only had 2 maybe 3 of the 5 conditions that the VA looks for to Classify PTSD. Because I do not beat my wife and children, because I am not severely Depressed, because I can get up every day and go to work, because I have learned how to handle the pain in a non-destructive way, because nI have never even contemplated chewing on the business end of a M1911 The VA says I do not have PTDS. The shrinks at my Work says they are Nuts. PTSD is not a game show, you do not have to get a perfect score to win. I am about to start my 3rd appeal.
WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO IS THIS: PO2 Gerry Tandberg is dead on. No one is immune from Post Traumatic Stress. It can happen to ANYONE! be ready to ask for help. There is no shame in it. Now if we can just get it from the VA
I went to my Dr. at the VA and had her refer me to the PTSD Clinic. I spoke to a Social Worker, she asked me a bunch of questions and I found out that I only had 2 maybe 3 of the 5 conditions that the VA looks for to Classify PTSD. Because I do not beat my wife and children, because I am not severely Depressed, because I can get up every day and go to work, because I have learned how to handle the pain in a non-destructive way, because nI have never even contemplated chewing on the business end of a M1911 The VA says I do not have PTDS. The shrinks at my Work says they are Nuts. PTSD is not a game show, you do not have to get a perfect score to win. I am about to start my 3rd appeal.
WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO IS THIS: PO2 Gerry Tandberg is dead on. No one is immune from Post Traumatic Stress. It can happen to ANYONE! be ready to ask for help. There is no shame in it. Now if we can just get it from the VA
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
PO2 Gerry Tandberg - Gerry, My problems now are just getting the VA to acknoledge it. I want it in my record. That is all. I do not want any money, or increase in my benefits or disability at this time. Because it has been so long, I learned to handle my own pain. My GOD, and Laughter. The American Legion and their VA Counselors have helped me greatly so far. I will look for those books you mentioned. Thanks.
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Kathlean Keesler
1972 I met a vets who said when he closed his eyes he saw his buddies drowning in blood. He said the only way he found to sleep was to take pills, get drunk and have a good cry. He gained a bunch of weight drinking and becoming a recluse. That was the 1st experience I had with a post traumatic Vietnam vet. I had a friend who was in WWII he said SHELL SHOCK hit him every time he heard a loud bang back firing car. One size fits all clinical studies is frustrating. Talking about the trauma set in is difficult for many people. My dad blew his head clean off with a double barrel deer gun 1975 I didn't know understand the depth of depression until then. If maybe my dad had God he'd have had some help ???
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
Kathlean Keesler - I am deeply saddened at your loss Kathlean, We all handle stress differently, I admit that even though I have known GOD all my life, I was not as close to him as I am now, and I did not walk daily with Jesus as I do now. I cannot tell you how many barrels of pine chips I made out of downed trees, back before I knew what it was. I thank the Lord he kept me away from alcohol, I just wish I could have stayed away from food too.
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Kathlean Keesler
Comfort foods - I'M an addict ! Howver I am able to touch my toes - give myself a big strong hug everyday. I think hugging myself is this GOD embrace - don't give up on yourself - MASHED and baked potatoes lots of butter and I like bacon with avocado as a topping then a spoon full of sour cream sprinkled with chives.... Guilt free
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Thanks for sharing what you learned about Post Traumatic Stress PO2 Gerry Tandberg. Hopefully what you shared will benefit many others.
Thanks for alerting me COL Mikel J. Burroughs
Thanks for alerting me COL Mikel J. Burroughs
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Capt (Join to see) (Council Bluffs, IA) Correct in the non-military PTSD. But it definitely can play a major roll in the severity of combat PTSD.
There are many evidence-based studies on combat-related PTSD. One of the main pre-military factors is childhood trauma & the PTSD related to the trauma. (Side note: studies are also showing there may be a correlation between ADD/ADHD & PTSD).
Fast forward to your combat experience the past (excuse the wording) "explodes" along with the "undetonated" (possibly buried &/or unrecognized) childhood trauma. Which then ads "insult to injury" to the combat experience.
Childhood trauma has a wide definition and, as with all things each of us experiences - separately or together - is subjective.
May you all find some peace and rest with the inner battles.
Jenn
There are many evidence-based studies on combat-related PTSD. One of the main pre-military factors is childhood trauma & the PTSD related to the trauma. (Side note: studies are also showing there may be a correlation between ADD/ADHD & PTSD).
Fast forward to your combat experience the past (excuse the wording) "explodes" along with the "undetonated" (possibly buried &/or unrecognized) childhood trauma. Which then ads "insult to injury" to the combat experience.
Childhood trauma has a wide definition and, as with all things each of us experiences - separately or together - is subjective.
May you all find some peace and rest with the inner battles.
Jenn
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Glad you recognized that it is not only combat that causes post traumatic stress. Nor is it just a military thing.
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This is interesting, as I am going through some studies about this as we speak. Thanks for sharing. I will take with me what I learn from others on RP and keep it close to me.
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PO2 Gerry Tandberg Thank you for this great post & sharing your wife's story. That is just about more than anyone should go through. Losing a child just seems to go against all that is natural.
MSG (Join to see) May you continue to plow through the difficult days and may the good outweigh the tough ones. Looks like that furry friend helps!
SFC (Join to see) "debriefing", or the lack of, is exactly what my group (Social Work Master's) and I are working on for our Research Topic.
One woman's husband is a 1SG and currently active duty, with an upcoming 6th deployment. The other group members - a "military kid" now an adult and whose sister is having difficulty transitioning; the other woman's brother-in-law has PTSD and is having difficulties putting the bottle down.
COL Mikel J. Burroughs et. al.,
PTSD, traumatic brain injury - with substance abuse (or even unchecked prescription interactions) is a hell of a combination to fight.
The Yellow Ribbon Reintegration Program was initially started to help National Guard & Reservists reintegrate... it started in 2005 and into thousand 13 I believe it was it was taken over by the DoD. I I don't know what they're doing now. I do know that there still are yellow ribbon events conferences 30, 60, and 90 days post-mob. In the Boston area I have seen multiple support organizations such as acupuncture and yoga, financial, mental health, the Home Base Program etc.
Sounds like these events don't happen as often as they should.
A few years ago a documentary came out called "the welcome" - it Took place at a PTSD retreat in Oregon. They were veterans from Vietnam on up maybe even been a few Korean vets (I don't remember). It was a creative retreat and at the end they all did something; wrote a song, performed a skit, wrote a letter, etc. There is a trailer on their web page, & may be a link to the full movie.
http://www.thewelcomethemovie.com
I encourage you all to reach out to each other, or to those of us who get it.
I will leave you with this story: sergeant Joe G. had been hit by an IED. He came into the USO lounge at Logan on his way to the Hanscom WTU. He was using a cane, had hearing aids, and dark glasses. He may have been early 30's, if that. He and I were talking and he, with a lot of faith in his God who he calls Jesus, he said this "those of us who came back, need to find our reason why we came back..." this young man obviously had a lot of faith.
A few months later I had a 6 foot 5" strapping 50 something-year-old Master Sergeant (Ret) come in on his way back to Arizona. It was slow so he and I were having a very nice quiet conversation. He was showing me pictures of him in Afghanistan in full battle-rattle and he became quiet and had to stop talking...he let a few tears flow "why did I come back? Those younger guys didn't have to die...." and apologized. I said "no apologies needed..." and then I told him what Sergeant Joe G. has said to me a few months prior. I then suggested "perhaps your reason for coming back it's to help the younger guys who did come back ... you've been there and back again. They need you to be here, stateside, to help them move through the nightmares and memories"
I know you are all out there for each other and there are a number of us out amongst the civilian "drones" who get it and are here to listen.
Jenn
I have to get back to studying so I can't go through spellcheck so please excuse any typos or verbal typos.
MSG (Join to see) May you continue to plow through the difficult days and may the good outweigh the tough ones. Looks like that furry friend helps!
SFC (Join to see) "debriefing", or the lack of, is exactly what my group (Social Work Master's) and I are working on for our Research Topic.
One woman's husband is a 1SG and currently active duty, with an upcoming 6th deployment. The other group members - a "military kid" now an adult and whose sister is having difficulty transitioning; the other woman's brother-in-law has PTSD and is having difficulties putting the bottle down.
COL Mikel J. Burroughs et. al.,
PTSD, traumatic brain injury - with substance abuse (or even unchecked prescription interactions) is a hell of a combination to fight.
The Yellow Ribbon Reintegration Program was initially started to help National Guard & Reservists reintegrate... it started in 2005 and into thousand 13 I believe it was it was taken over by the DoD. I I don't know what they're doing now. I do know that there still are yellow ribbon events conferences 30, 60, and 90 days post-mob. In the Boston area I have seen multiple support organizations such as acupuncture and yoga, financial, mental health, the Home Base Program etc.
Sounds like these events don't happen as often as they should.
A few years ago a documentary came out called "the welcome" - it Took place at a PTSD retreat in Oregon. They were veterans from Vietnam on up maybe even been a few Korean vets (I don't remember). It was a creative retreat and at the end they all did something; wrote a song, performed a skit, wrote a letter, etc. There is a trailer on their web page, & may be a link to the full movie.
http://www.thewelcomethemovie.com
I encourage you all to reach out to each other, or to those of us who get it.
I will leave you with this story: sergeant Joe G. had been hit by an IED. He came into the USO lounge at Logan on his way to the Hanscom WTU. He was using a cane, had hearing aids, and dark glasses. He may have been early 30's, if that. He and I were talking and he, with a lot of faith in his God who he calls Jesus, he said this "those of us who came back, need to find our reason why we came back..." this young man obviously had a lot of faith.
A few months later I had a 6 foot 5" strapping 50 something-year-old Master Sergeant (Ret) come in on his way back to Arizona. It was slow so he and I were having a very nice quiet conversation. He was showing me pictures of him in Afghanistan in full battle-rattle and he became quiet and had to stop talking...he let a few tears flow "why did I come back? Those younger guys didn't have to die...." and apologized. I said "no apologies needed..." and then I told him what Sergeant Joe G. has said to me a few months prior. I then suggested "perhaps your reason for coming back it's to help the younger guys who did come back ... you've been there and back again. They need you to be here, stateside, to help them move through the nightmares and memories"
I know you are all out there for each other and there are a number of us out amongst the civilian "drones" who get it and are here to listen.
Jenn
I have to get back to studying so I can't go through spellcheck so please excuse any typos or verbal typos.
The Welcome offers a fiercely intimate view of life after war: the fear, anger and isolation of post-traumatic stress that affects vets and family members alike. As we join them in a small room for an unusual five day healing retreat, we witness how the ruins of war can be transformed into the beauty of poetry. Here our perceptions are changed, our psyches strained, and our hearts broken. And at the end, when this poetry is shared with a large...
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PO2 Gerry Tandberg
I would like to thank everyone for encouraging each other. I pray my perspective has been helpful. The Vet Camps are indeed a good tool in helping Vets with PTSI. Those of us who came aboard as camp staff have seen the Vets themselves pickup the ball and have taken over for staff members. It didn't happen overnight, and there were many times we wondered if we are helping at all. The answer is a resounding yes.
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What I have learned about PTSD, it will keep you in a defensive mode in all situations personally and professionally.
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This is a tremendously insightful analysis of PTS. As a Veteran in his late sixties I have many friends I grew up and whom I worked with who spent time in combat in Vietnam. Most were wounded, some seriously. All have coped with the horrific effects of Agent Orange. Two were in so much pain from A.O. they could no longer endure it and committed suicide. I think the government through the VA has let these Veterans down for the most part. Failing to confront this illness when the Veterans returned home left many of them and their families trying to cope with this debilitating injury without understanding what was happening to the Veteran. Shining the spotlight on PTSI or D, however it is named is heartening and hopefully the people coming back from middle east conflicts will at long last get the help they need and deserve.
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Kathlean Keesler
Is it hard to talk because society has this impression if your not productive, looking clean, smiling, you might be dangerous, mentally ill and need medication and if your productive by golly then your a healthy independent? In Santa Cruz Ca there are housed & homeless veterans who clearly need help. Some yell out absurdities, and frighten children in the parks. It's unfortunate the VA has allowed this to fall through the cracks and make excuses, money as the vocal point. Santa Cruz Vets Memorial Hall (its big) I found IT closed and IT could have held groups easily- AFFORDABILITY (preventative measure) groups together on a schedule. They refer vets to Veterans Services when I see many simply have lost their dignity and or feel uncomfortable/embarrassed. There are lots of people, not just veterans of war, who think they are the only one with skeletons in the closet. PSTD disorder disease - is like red knuckle sobriety, or a monkey on your back drug addiction; at least that's how I saw it living out on the streets with these traumatized vets. Several men I spoke to were on prescribed drugs attached to this open classification (bipolar or PSTD) some impersonal, classified clinical study "one size fits all" experts terminology. OH you have PTSD, boxed up. OR you don't pass the test to be considered valid to be classified for treatment. DO we all need TREATMENT? What about good ole commardery SUPPORT in supporting each other via talking and a little dose of laughter? (There isn't profit in prevention) The stories I tried to listen to became so long and confused I grew tired of listening. I concluded this/ that was due to our government's neglect; transition ought to be 1st, some sort of mandatory welcome home TLC. I may/might never change my mind on that opinion. THANKS for allowing me to babble......
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Kathlean Keesler
PO2 Gerry Tandberg - Hello THANKS - If I may AND please feel welcome to TEACH me - I do not take anything personally as in hurt feelings. My situation I have sort of planned. Nasty divorce took 4 freaking yrs 2011-2014. I WAS left literally out on the streets, as if that were somehow legal in the family courts of Watsonville Ca.. So I decided to go back before my oldest child was born 1981. I once hung out & about with PTS disorder Vietnam vets. I saw once rural community (farmers, small family owned businesses, local police, grocery clerks ....get the picture?) families with BIG potential they became all broken apart. I saw women left to raise the Vietnam vets BOYS & girs. I saw the incoming of drug addiction. UNBELIEVABLE those who made it back, out of body bags, once fine football players,
high school sweet hearts, with loving hard working supportive parents & teachers; these young men returned from war all DOPED up. Today I have plopped right inside a Vietnam vets federal (HUD), low income, disabled, (apartment) housing. Divorced twice. He needs assistance, with surgery recuperation. His 5 adult children are too busy earning a living. His grandkids are too young. He has one leg. He smokes a lot of cigarettes. POINT might be WHY are these vets breaking down after they "made families", after they worked for years reaching for the American Dream? THE gov't seems to have ripped away the American family and we need double incomes to "raise our young!" . Parents, spouses, clergy, family physicians.... we all need to understand PTSD...In my divorce case the local justice system destroyed any hope for family mediation and left my young daughters motherless. Are we all in the same BALL PARK?
high school sweet hearts, with loving hard working supportive parents & teachers; these young men returned from war all DOPED up. Today I have plopped right inside a Vietnam vets federal (HUD), low income, disabled, (apartment) housing. Divorced twice. He needs assistance, with surgery recuperation. His 5 adult children are too busy earning a living. His grandkids are too young. He has one leg. He smokes a lot of cigarettes. POINT might be WHY are these vets breaking down after they "made families", after they worked for years reaching for the American Dream? THE gov't seems to have ripped away the American family and we need double incomes to "raise our young!" . Parents, spouses, clergy, family physicians.... we all need to understand PTSD...In my divorce case the local justice system destroyed any hope for family mediation and left my young daughters motherless. Are we all in the same BALL PARK?
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Thank you all so very much. PTSD is a modern world poltical word for SHELL SHOCK . I appreciate all your stories and the information. If I may - my 18 yrs old sweet middle class, full time waitress-hostess @ a locally owned restaurant, in the community where she was born & raised has been violently, brutally stabbed. The gang member (? Perp) is a Latino. He was wth 2 others. She was stabbed sharp wide knife more than once. She was attacked in front of her father's multi million dollar home 95062 Live Oak California. She was rushed via ambulance for treatment. She believes the stabber called 911. She is an emotional, psychological, physical wreck. Is this PTSD? I posted her stab wound with stitches on my Facebook page. Thanks for this place I feel comfortable being me.
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PO2 Gerry Tandberg
Kathleen, I'm familiar with Live Oak as my parents live in Gridley for a number of years, and we'd drive through Live Oak on our way to visit them many times. It was also in-route to our biannual trips to Oroville. Please let you friend know that she will likely experience flashback as a result of this assault for the rest of her life; but although as horrific as it is, this is a normal reaction to an emotional injury and physical injury, not a disorder. Encourage her to seek help through supports groups and peers who have similar experiences; i.e., other victims, including combat veterans, police, fire fighters, etc. Don't forget that Post Traumatic Stress is an injury and it will to leaves both those physical, as well as emotional scars. We all have scars that simply don't go away. My loss of an 8.5 old child was a bad chapter in my life which will never be forgotten, and it will remain etched in my memory forever. But, there is a silver lining in every event we experience, and for your friend it very likely she survived just to help others! As a Christian I can tell you that the Great Healer is Yeshua (Jesus) and there are tens of thousands living today who will attest to that.
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Kathlean Keesler
Thank you. I have much to share. 1st the wonderful Live Oak sheriff's caught the man who stabbed my daughter 3 times. One wound was so near a vital organ she said she was told she might have been paralyzed.
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Kathlean Keesler
Of course I needed to head back to comfort her 2,100 miles drive Chicago to Santa Cruz. I decided to replace the car I sold to go to Africa for 7 months June-December 2016. I got a Ford XLT Contact cargo van. Home on wheels. Packed all my camping gear, with tons of survival gear, food and the cherished relics I brought back from Kenya. 600 miles to go WHAM I entered a snow storm. So thick were the flakes I could not see even with the windshield wipers flapping time. Lucky for me I saw a Highway Patrol parked - I pulled over and confessed "I have not slept in over 30 hrs... Stupid maybe BUT please help me locate a hotel.
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Kathlean Keesler
Going to build a frosty the snowman today WILL share him - his name will be Smokin Joe - as he will reside nearest the smoking area which is so nice - structure I will share it - closet smoker Kate
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For those struggling with PTSI. When I submitted my article to RallyPoint six months ago they suggested I NOT include reference material I provided because I did not have the permission of those authors. If you consider those authors provided information for the sole purpose of helping those who struggle with PTSI, it would seem that permission was already granted and a mute point. Therefore, here are those resources. Please note that "On Killing" by LtCol David Grossman was a one of the last books I read at the suggestion of Bob Whitworth who wrote "Through My Eyes".
Jim Hyde at Peer Support Central http://www.peersupportcentral.com is a certified Conflict Mediation Trainer, and conducts seminars on how to deal with critical incidents in our life. Mr. Hyde is also a member of National Guard and served in law enforcement for 31 years. I’ve attended three of his seminar, and found them to be excellent. He also approached this important and serious subject with a measure of humor which we all appreciated. Some of what I’ve leaned is expressed in my article "What I learned about Post Traumatic Stress".
Good reads:
Through My Eyes by Bob Whitworth, Vietnam Veteran.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/ [login to see] -0053808?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Through+my+eyes%2C+bob+whitworth
The Wounds of the Soul, by Jim Money, Patriot Guard Rider and Vietnam Veteran.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Wounds-Soul-Veterans-Families/dp/ [login to see]
Unbroken, Louis Zamperini (Laura Hillenbrand) WWII Veteran and Japanese POW. Hollywood made a movie of Louis Zamperini's experience, but left out important information Louis provided about his struggle with PTSI and how he overcame in the last several chapters of the book. Leave it to Hollywood's failures!
http://www.amazon.com/Unbroken-World-Survival-Resilience-Redemption/dp/ [login to see]
On Killing, Lt Col David Grossman. This book is required reading in certain branches of our military, and I highly recommend it be read.
http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/ [login to see] /ref=sr_1_1/ [login to see] -2057721?ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=8-1&keywords=dave+grossman+killing
I pray that the above reference material will be of benefit to those Combat Veterans and others who suffer from PTSI, or want to understand it better.
Jim Hyde at Peer Support Central http://www.peersupportcentral.com is a certified Conflict Mediation Trainer, and conducts seminars on how to deal with critical incidents in our life. Mr. Hyde is also a member of National Guard and served in law enforcement for 31 years. I’ve attended three of his seminar, and found them to be excellent. He also approached this important and serious subject with a measure of humor which we all appreciated. Some of what I’ve leaned is expressed in my article "What I learned about Post Traumatic Stress".
Good reads:
Through My Eyes by Bob Whitworth, Vietnam Veteran.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/ [login to see] -0053808?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=Through+my+eyes%2C+bob+whitworth
The Wounds of the Soul, by Jim Money, Patriot Guard Rider and Vietnam Veteran.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Wounds-Soul-Veterans-Families/dp/ [login to see]
Unbroken, Louis Zamperini (Laura Hillenbrand) WWII Veteran and Japanese POW. Hollywood made a movie of Louis Zamperini's experience, but left out important information Louis provided about his struggle with PTSI and how he overcame in the last several chapters of the book. Leave it to Hollywood's failures!
http://www.amazon.com/Unbroken-World-Survival-Resilience-Redemption/dp/ [login to see]
On Killing, Lt Col David Grossman. This book is required reading in certain branches of our military, and I highly recommend it be read.
http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-Society/dp/ [login to see] /ref=sr_1_1/ [login to see] -2057721?ie=UTF8&qid= [login to see] &sr=8-1&keywords=dave+grossman+killing
I pray that the above reference material will be of benefit to those Combat Veterans and others who suffer from PTSI, or want to understand it better.
Peer Support Central offers leadership training to those in the first responder and military communities. Contact us today to see a schedule of programs.
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I whole really think he is on to something here, when people hear disorder they do believe (in my opinion) it is a negative thing. and dealing with people they tend to view and treat people with PTSD as if the had a cold and was punished for coughing(everytime you coughed)
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