Posted on Feb 5, 2015
Should medically retired get the same certificate as those that did 20+?
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Should people who are medically retired from the service receive the same retirement certificate as those that did the required 20 years or more?
I felt compelled to edit my original post due to the inability of people to decipher its intended message. Nowhere in the original post was I recommending nor advocating diminishing the quality of anyone’s service, in fact I stated that those that served honorably deserve due recognition.
Unfortunately people were so passionate about the subject that they failed to realize that I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement.
In short I was merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate. However the onslaught of down votes has only re-enforced the fact that voicing your opinion on social media is the fastest way to create a riot despite the failure of the intended targets ability to translate its content.
I felt compelled to edit my original post due to the inability of people to decipher its intended message. Nowhere in the original post was I recommending nor advocating diminishing the quality of anyone’s service, in fact I stated that those that served honorably deserve due recognition.
Unfortunately people were so passionate about the subject that they failed to realize that I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement.
In short I was merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate. However the onslaught of down votes has only re-enforced the fact that voicing your opinion on social media is the fastest way to create a riot despite the failure of the intended targets ability to translate its content.
Posted in these groups: 
Retirement
Retirement
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 102
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I don't know if your realize this, but those of us that we're "medically" retired don't receive an actual retirement check. Just the disability check for the rated percentage. You on the other hand would get both. Do I deserve to have the honor of receiving the same piece of paper as you? That is your own opinion, but I'll be damned if someone like you will make me and those like me feel less of a Soldier because you are butt hurt that I have the same retirement document as you. I feel like I earned mine, and though was found medically unfit, does not make you a better Soldier than me or anybody else that has served in any capacity.
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SSG Edward Tilton
Doesn't look like mine. I was retired by ABCMR five years after I was seperated. Doesn't matter much. Blue ID doesn't get me more than I had with a brown one. The Army keeps my retired pay because it is less than my VA, and I have to pay for SBP and Dental for the wife. Much Bean Counting keeping many clerk busy.
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Suspended Profile
Ditto!!
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SFC,
I am one of these "unexceptable" retired soldiers who just like you have had a Screaming Eagle on my shoulder. Because I chose to serve this great nation in a country that was not my own helping my brothers and sisters who were hurt or injured I too became injured. Now who is to say that if I had not gotten hurt I would not have done my "required" 20+ ? As far as the military is concerned there is no such thing as a medical retirement. You either are retired or your not.
I am one of these "unexceptable" retired soldiers who just like you have had a Screaming Eagle on my shoulder. Because I chose to serve this great nation in a country that was not my own helping my brothers and sisters who were hurt or injured I too became injured. Now who is to say that if I had not gotten hurt I would not have done my "required" 20+ ? As far as the military is concerned there is no such thing as a medical retirement. You either are retired or your not.
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SSG Michael O'Malley
Also wanted to state that all of this is over a simple piece of paper. Does a piece of paper really mean that much to you? Do regular retirees not get a DD214 as well? I could care less about paper. I know how and why I served and it was not for a selfish reason get get a title of a retiree at the end. Maybe there is a deeper issue inside you that you should reflect on before you run mud in others faces who have given more than just years of service for this country.
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BLUF: HELL YES they should!
I personally feel embarrassed to call you a peer. I hope you don't feel that those who are lower ranking or have less time in the military are somehow inferior to you. Increased rank bears increased responsibility, not just increased privileges.
I'm not sure what I hate more, "leaders" who put themselves on a pedestal, or those who stand on the backs of their subordinates to make themselves somehow bigger than what they really are. We should be doing everything in our power to ensure those junior to us have the tools to be successful and can eventually take our place, not belittling them to justify our own existence.
These people "running around" sporting whatever pride they have in their military service sacrificed for their country deserve our gratitude and respect. The circumstances of their release should have no bearing on the debt their country owes them. So, kindly tell us again, why someone who has honorably served their country and could no longer do so due to severe medical problems should not rewarded with a retirement?
I personally feel embarrassed to call you a peer. I hope you don't feel that those who are lower ranking or have less time in the military are somehow inferior to you. Increased rank bears increased responsibility, not just increased privileges.
I'm not sure what I hate more, "leaders" who put themselves on a pedestal, or those who stand on the backs of their subordinates to make themselves somehow bigger than what they really are. We should be doing everything in our power to ensure those junior to us have the tools to be successful and can eventually take our place, not belittling them to justify our own existence.
These people "running around" sporting whatever pride they have in their military service sacrificed for their country deserve our gratitude and respect. The circumstances of their release should have no bearing on the debt their country owes them. So, kindly tell us again, why someone who has honorably served their country and could no longer do so due to severe medical problems should not rewarded with a retirement?
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So how about somebody that served 20+ AND got hurt/medically retired? Does that mean my piece of paper is now worth more than yours?
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As someone who reenlisted onto active duty after 9-11, I had every intention of serving until I did my 20 years. Now I am facing a medical board and medical retirement due to injuries, chronic pain, and PTSD issues. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but as others have pointed out: the military considers medical retirement the same as retirement. Perhaps some of us didn't pay into the retirement with 20 years of service, but if you're medically retired you definitely paid for that retirement in other ways.
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SGT Aaron Olivas
@SSG Kenneth Hammes If you ever have questions about the MEB/PEB Process contact me I can help guide you threw the mess if you ever get lost.
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It's just not a good question all together; what's the purpose for even asking? I'm disappointed that a SM would think it is OK to ask this, without thinking for one second how many of our wounded warriors he is about to offend. SFC G, I think you owe some people an apology my friend.
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SFC (Join to see)
Absolutely not, I will not apologize for asking a question about a certificate. The apology should come from people who read my post and some how translated it into my saying those medically retired are lesser humans.
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CW3 Eddy Vleugels
SFC G...you keep digging that hole deeper and deeper, and you keep blaming everyone else for their "inability"...to be able to read your message.
One critical characteristic of being a good leader is to recognize and assess situations, and take appropriate actions; sometimes that means to recognize a mistake you made and to own it and adjust accordingly.
If at this point you are not getting that message, I recommend you take a step back, talk to some of your mentors, seek some advice, and let them explain it to you.
One critical characteristic of being a good leader is to recognize and assess situations, and take appropriate actions; sometimes that means to recognize a mistake you made and to own it and adjust accordingly.
If at this point you are not getting that message, I recommend you take a step back, talk to some of your mentors, seek some advice, and let them explain it to you.
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CSM (Join to see)
Excellent advice CW3 Eddy Vleugels . SFC (Join to see), I second the recommendation. What you thought you said and what was heard were two different things. Your intent might have been pure, but the perception is totally different. Take that step back and figure out where you want to go from here. A different tact is recommended.
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PO3 (Join to see)
Having read what the OP originally posted:
"Should people who are medically retired from the service receive the same retirement certificate as those that did the required 20 years or more?
I am seeing a lot of people running around these days sporting retired clothing, bumper stickers, etc.... and some barely finished 5 years, some even less. I've got it, they served, they were legitimately injured ( some) or they just whined enough to get retired and receive benefits but do they deserve the "Retired" title?
Those that endured the full 20 or more I beleive deserve better recognition.
If I had my way those that didn't do 20 would get a certificate of appreciation for their service. They are already getting the DD214 and other documents verifying their service but a certificate of retirement is too much"
And now what he's edited to:
"I felt compelled to edit my original post due to the inability of people to decipher its intended message. Nowhere in the original post was I recommending nor advocating diminishing the quality of anyone’s service, in fact I stated that those that served honorably deserve due recognition."
I'm gonna have to go with category #2...
"Should people who are medically retired from the service receive the same retirement certificate as those that did the required 20 years or more?
I am seeing a lot of people running around these days sporting retired clothing, bumper stickers, etc.... and some barely finished 5 years, some even less. I've got it, they served, they were legitimately injured ( some) or they just whined enough to get retired and receive benefits but do they deserve the "Retired" title?
Those that endured the full 20 or more I beleive deserve better recognition.
If I had my way those that didn't do 20 would get a certificate of appreciation for their service. They are already getting the DD214 and other documents verifying their service but a certificate of retirement is too much"
And now what he's edited to:
"I felt compelled to edit my original post due to the inability of people to decipher its intended message. Nowhere in the original post was I recommending nor advocating diminishing the quality of anyone’s service, in fact I stated that those that served honorably deserve due recognition."
I'm gonna have to go with category #2...
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I was lucky enough to get my 20 and a piece of paper stating so. I have a feeling most who have been medically retired didn't want to, they wanted to continue their service. They never asked to be retired, it was a medical decision. I think you're a little narrow minded in your thinking. If it was a faker/ slacker who's worked the system to get a medical retirement who's pissed in your soup, sorry, but don't stab those who've honorably served and were medically retired because of their service.
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SFC Grudzinski,
One of the first things I learned as a young NCO is; It's not what you say, but how you say it. I noticed you went back and edited your original post. To be honest, I'm not sure you have picked up on what everyone is trying to tell you. You seem to think that it's everyone else fault for misinterpreting your message. Your original message was also self centered, and condescending to those who may not be able to contribute to society in the same ways they could before.
I only wish for you to know that our careers in the Military have nothing to do with us. It's about our service to this great nation and the people at our sides. If, somehow, we can reap a reward, or receive some compensation along the way it is ok. But, the Army was here before us, and it will be here (God Willing) long after we are gone.
I get the idea from reading your posts, that your 20+ career and upcoming retirement, is somehow impacted by those who have somehow sacrificed differently then you. I hate to break it to you, but we all sacrifice in different ways. Some people give more than others, and some take advantage of the system. But you know what? If you can go home with a clear conscience, and a belief you gave everything you could, then why stress about other people, and what they deserve over what you deserve?
I know my rant here means nothing, but then again, oh well... May God Bless you and your family, and may we just realize that we are here for each other, not against each other.
One of the first things I learned as a young NCO is; It's not what you say, but how you say it. I noticed you went back and edited your original post. To be honest, I'm not sure you have picked up on what everyone is trying to tell you. You seem to think that it's everyone else fault for misinterpreting your message. Your original message was also self centered, and condescending to those who may not be able to contribute to society in the same ways they could before.
I only wish for you to know that our careers in the Military have nothing to do with us. It's about our service to this great nation and the people at our sides. If, somehow, we can reap a reward, or receive some compensation along the way it is ok. But, the Army was here before us, and it will be here (God Willing) long after we are gone.
I get the idea from reading your posts, that your 20+ career and upcoming retirement, is somehow impacted by those who have somehow sacrificed differently then you. I hate to break it to you, but we all sacrifice in different ways. Some people give more than others, and some take advantage of the system. But you know what? If you can go home with a clear conscience, and a belief you gave everything you could, then why stress about other people, and what they deserve over what you deserve?
I know my rant here means nothing, but then again, oh well... May God Bless you and your family, and may we just realize that we are here for each other, not against each other.
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SFC (Join to see)
You must also agree that people frequently misunderstand the typed word over the spoken. No where in anything I wrote was I diminishing anyone's service or sacrifice. Contrary to what you wrote I don't intend on retiring anytime soon.
Condescending ? Where did you even get that from my advocating two different certificates? Contribute to society? I never mentioned anything about that.
That was the point of my choosing to edit becasue people were incorrectly quoting me or paraphrasing it.
Condescending ? Where did you even get that from my advocating two different certificates? Contribute to society? I never mentioned anything about that.
That was the point of my choosing to edit becasue people were incorrectly quoting me or paraphrasing it.
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SFC (Join to see)
SFC Steven Grudzinski,
I fully understand and agree that it is very easy to be misunderstood, or have our message misinterpreted. It is expected that we, as seniors, choose our words carefully and ensure our message is received as intended. I'm not sure there is anyone out there that has said something and wished they could take it back. I also have regrettably been victim of of being misinterpreted on more than one occasion. I have also paid for stepping on my ****(you know what).
What I'm trying to say here, is that your message, however it was intended, was perceived as lacking empathy for those who are medically retired. This is not an isolated case of a single person, but that of the majority who have commented on this thread.
I also think social media has opened a new world, and caused many to suffer at their own words. I often counsel my Soldiers to refrain from posting "questionable" things on social media, and to find someone to objectively critique anything that may cause problems. This is the same for email, and I will often write emails outside outlook, to avoid from rashly sending something.
Again, I always tell people, we are here for each other, not against each other. Also, We all serve, some more than others, but that's not the point.
I fully understand and agree that it is very easy to be misunderstood, or have our message misinterpreted. It is expected that we, as seniors, choose our words carefully and ensure our message is received as intended. I'm not sure there is anyone out there that has said something and wished they could take it back. I also have regrettably been victim of of being misinterpreted on more than one occasion. I have also paid for stepping on my ****(you know what).
What I'm trying to say here, is that your message, however it was intended, was perceived as lacking empathy for those who are medically retired. This is not an isolated case of a single person, but that of the majority who have commented on this thread.
I also think social media has opened a new world, and caused many to suffer at their own words. I often counsel my Soldiers to refrain from posting "questionable" things on social media, and to find someone to objectively critique anything that may cause problems. This is the same for email, and I will often write emails outside outlook, to avoid from rashly sending something.
Again, I always tell people, we are here for each other, not against each other. Also, We all serve, some more than others, but that's not the point.
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We broke it, we pay for it. That's a good standard. A certificate is the least we can do. Unfortunately, there are lots of warriors who were damaged during service who don't get medically retired, carry their injuries in silence, and get ignored by the military.
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SFC (Join to see)
Well sir I highly doubt that since my wife works for the MEB and I know what they go through before a determination is made whether to retire them or not. In most cases those injuries are not as bad as the soldier would like people to believe.
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MAJ Ron Peery
I see that you collected a lot of down votes on this. I am not one of them.
I have met and worked with a lot of veterans who were injured in the normal course of duty and got nothing. Screwed up backs, nerve damage, stress fractures, bad knees, messed up shoulders, hearing loss. Most of us just accept it and march on. A friend of mine developed Hodgkin's Lymphoma. The Army medical facility at our post labeled him as a chronic complainer, until he collapsed on duty during an FTX. He died while undergoing radical chemo. Our system is not perfect. People slip through the cracks. When someone has served honorably and is injured or becomes ill and can no longer perform, and the injury or illness are service related, why should it make a difference how long they served?
I have met and worked with a lot of veterans who were injured in the normal course of duty and got nothing. Screwed up backs, nerve damage, stress fractures, bad knees, messed up shoulders, hearing loss. Most of us just accept it and march on. A friend of mine developed Hodgkin's Lymphoma. The Army medical facility at our post labeled him as a chronic complainer, until he collapsed on duty during an FTX. He died while undergoing radical chemo. Our system is not perfect. People slip through the cracks. When someone has served honorably and is injured or becomes ill and can no longer perform, and the injury or illness are service related, why should it make a difference how long they served?
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I'm probably going to get a down vote for this. I think there should be two certificates for the 20 years in service versus the medically retired. It makes a difference. Someone who was medically retired probably didn't want to stop serving. I think their certificate should reflect how much they sacrificed for their country. Someone who has served 20 years ( someone who was lucky to surpass that magical 20 years) probably was healthy enough to do it. So I do think it's two different things. It should be differentiated in my opinion.
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MSG (Join to see)
I agree ma'am. Healthy or not.. 20 years is a long time in my opinion to put up with the "hooah".
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Kyle Carpenter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
William Kyle Carpenter (born October 17, 1989), also known as Kyle Carpenter, is a medically retired United States Marine who received the United States' highest military honor, the Medal of Honor, for his actions in Marjah, Helmand Province, Afghanistan in 2011. Carpenter is the youngest living Medal of Honor recipient.
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Since a significant number of people were able to retire at 15 years based on Congressional modifications at different points in history, while most of us couldn't I have no issue with anybody who is medically required I support those who are medically retired getting a certificate - assuming they were honorably discharged SFC (Join to see).
Whether we retire after 15, 20, 30, 35, 40 or longer years of service I believe everybody should get the same basic retirement certificate whether retirement is based on years of service or medical separation.
I had an opportunity to be medically discharged in 2003; but, I elected to stay on. Congress modified the retirement law so that anybody mobilized after January 30, 2008 could have their retirement age reduced by 90 days for every period of 90 day qualifying service.
You stated "I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement. ... merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate."
I appreciate the spirit of your question which is why I up-voted you on August 16, 2017.
I have never down-voted anybody although I have been sorely tested :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSgt (Join to see) SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Wayne Brandon SSG William WallMSgt Jason McClishAN Christopher CrayneSgt Trevor BarrettSPC Tom DeSmetSGT Charles H. Hawes
Whether we retire after 15, 20, 30, 35, 40 or longer years of service I believe everybody should get the same basic retirement certificate whether retirement is based on years of service or medical separation.
I had an opportunity to be medically discharged in 2003; but, I elected to stay on. Congress modified the retirement law so that anybody mobilized after January 30, 2008 could have their retirement age reduced by 90 days for every period of 90 day qualifying service.
You stated "I was actually defending those that served honorably against those that are shirking the system in order to obtain medical retirement. ... merely advocating a different retirement certificate for those that completed the requisite 20 years versus those that didn’t. This is no way makes the service any less valuable it merely allows people to differentiate."
I appreciate the spirit of your question which is why I up-voted you on August 16, 2017.
I have never down-voted anybody although I have been sorely tested :-)
FYI COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Stephen C. Maj William W. 'Bill' Price Capt Christopher Mueller Capt Seid Waddell CW5 (Join to see) SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SSgt (Join to see) SPC (Join to see) SrA Christopher Wright LTC Wayne Brandon SSG William WallMSgt Jason McClishAN Christopher CrayneSgt Trevor BarrettSPC Tom DeSmetSGT Charles H. Hawes
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It is a shame I can't find any General's from my service that have a meme worth posting - oh, that's right, my General's forgot they were Soldier's first and now think they are politicians (which they are).
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SP5 Richard Maze
Is this a disability retirement or a medical discharge? If someone is retired because a service-connected injury or disability prevents them from continuing to serve, the law allows them to receive retired pay. I'm OK with them getting a retirement certificate.
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SFC (Join to see),
If I end up medically retired (a very strong possibility), I won't care one whit if my certificate says Medically Retired instead of Retired. The Army is all about segregating and specifying things, like when my clothing record has "Socks, OD Green" on a separate line from "Socks, Black"... it's just stating the facts. In my mind, it's logical for the medically retired to have a certificate that states as much.
Still, you seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest with your question. I think you somehow tapped into people's emotions with this one. Good luck weathering the storm and don't worry, someone will eventually post something that draws their ire more. ;)
If I end up medically retired (a very strong possibility), I won't care one whit if my certificate says Medically Retired instead of Retired. The Army is all about segregating and specifying things, like when my clothing record has "Socks, OD Green" on a separate line from "Socks, Black"... it's just stating the facts. In my mind, it's logical for the medically retired to have a certificate that states as much.
Still, you seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest with your question. I think you somehow tapped into people's emotions with this one. Good luck weathering the storm and don't worry, someone will eventually post something that draws their ire more. ;)
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I'm sorry but I think you need to understand most of us didn't to be retired and I think it's wrong to assume you know what others are going through I would love the simple things back to drive a car be aloud to be alone with out a (old man sitter) as the grandchildren call it to sleep six hours without pain or dreaming about something that happened so long ago but right now it's like it's happening RI GGGGGHH HT NOW .
As with life in general walk a mile in my boots before you think you can judge
As with life in general walk a mile in my boots before you think you can judge
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
SGT Jim Barrows, Roger that good post and I appreciate your Service. Thanks for Sharing! Very inspiring!
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Why the hell not? They were forced out to reasons beyond their control. It's not like they didn't re-enlist. In many cases, those who are medically retired may have done more to earn their retirement than those who served 20 years.
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PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith
Chief, really, a dunce cap? Let's take it easy on the hyperbole, shall we? A guy gets his ass blown off in Iraq and is forced to leave service though he wants to stay in. He wasn't a forced out because he was fat, he was retired from service. You did 23, congratulations. I envy you. Wish I could've. Wasn't in the cards for me. (Mostly my own fault), but guys who are medically retired 99% of the time earned their retirement.
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